Michael Sweet/Stryper

I've listened to Christian Music since way back when. It was Stryper that actually got me into Christian metal (before it was MWS, D&K, etc). Like Alldat, I wish they would've put out a whole new album of new material rather then a covers album. But that being said, it is no big deal to me. I actually enjoyed the album. So what if it is covers of secular songs, doesn't mean it's affected their faith. Kinda goes back to the old issue of, Christian bands should only play Christian concerts. And yet the ones who probably need to hear the music more is the non-Christians. Look at Skillet, they have hit big in the mainstream market opened for a who's who of mainstream rock bands, does that make them a sell out?. How about the fact that when Skillet/Disciple toured together, both John Cooper & Kevin Young did a cover of Bon Jovi's "I'll Be There For You". So was that wrong?. At the heart of the matter is their personal faith. As far as I know all 4 of the guys have a strong faith and won't compromise it. So they do a covers album of bands that influenced them in their career, big deal. I listen to both Christian music and secular music, and it doesn't affect my faith. I can jam out to Guardian, Stryper one day, and pop on some Poison or Crue the next. Stryper has always been my favorite group of all time and I highly doubt that will change.

It was my questioning the leaving of some of the ungodly lyrics in place in the songs on the "Covering" that led to my being blasted by the mods and getting the left foot of fellowship over on CMR. It destroyed a long relationship with that boards leadership and I Hope I will fare better here but feel strongly on this.
I love Strypers music always have but some of the decisions of the band as of late are spiritually disturbing to me. You can't play fast and loose with this stuff!

ishmael81 wrote:

Not to stir the pot (too much) but am I sinning because I don't call myself a Christian Mental Health Professional? Is my wife doing something wrong when she doesn't tell new people she meets she a Christian Stay At Home Mom?

You see my point? I fully believe that Artists who are Christians should write music, paint paintings, write books, carve sculptures etc. that represent their faith. But where do we draw the line as to what's acceptable.

When Stryper first put out the Covering, I was shocked and bummed. But I seriously doubt the guys did the album without praying about it first. I don't think it was intended to shock people.

Going back to what I started my post with, I work in he mental health field for a state facility. Since I work for the government, I legally cannot discuss my faith unless someone asks me. So how do I still spread the gospel (as Jesus commanded) while still obeying the law of the land (as Paul instructed us to do in Romans)? My actions. When someone asks, I'll share. But the bulk of my witness comes from how I treat people.

Bro I agree with you absolutely here and yes i was shocked and bummed that they did some of the songs they did and NOT clean the lyrics up. I had no issue with Stryper doing covers or paying tribute to their influences but just watch what you are singing about guys !
I got slagged so badly on CMR over this I will step away for now as I don't need to get bludgeoned again on one of these boards for blaspheming the band.

alldatndensum wrote:

How have I missed this thread? Reading through it just makes me want to some people for being too darn critical of other Christians without bothering to find out where they are coming from. To be honest, it's quite embarrassing to have some of what is said in this thread on my board.

Bro I'm SO glad you chimed in here! I was serious with the part that this subject led to a absolute break between me and the CMR board and it's still a sore spot. Some folks will get absolutely vicious if you question this band on spirituality. PLEASE watch this thread bro as I don't want to see any one here go through what I did at CMR!! At least here (so far) the ones getting testy are not the MODS like they were on that board!

When it comes down to it I think stryper recorded this album because they wanted to and really didn't care what anyone thought. Oz being in tattoo vinyl shows his views...which I agree with.

Ascension wrote:

It was my questioning the leaving of some of the ungodly lyrics in place in the songs on the "Covering" that led to my being blasted by the mods and getting the left foot of fellowship over on CMR. It destroyed a long relationship with that boards leadership and I Hope I will fare better here but feel strongly on this.
I love Strypers music always have but some of the decisions of the band as of late are spiritually disturbing to me. You can't play fast and loose with this stuff!

I'm with you on this. I agree 100%. It seems as thou some people think if its a "Christain" band whatever they do is ok just dont critisize them because the world will do that anyway. Hogwash.

brokentulsa wrote:

When it comes down to it I think stryper recorded this album because they wanted to and really didn't care what anyone thought. Oz being in tattoo vinyl shows his views...which I agree with.

Nothing more really needs to be said about that right. We know were Oz Fox stands. Look where he is. Its about the Love of God and singing music that uplifts, honors, and glorifies God.

Vinyl Tattoo, doesnt do that.

This is a CHRISTian Hard Music Forum correct.

ishmael81 wrote:

Not to stir the pot (too much) but am I sinning because I don't call myself a Christian Mental Health Professional? Is my wife doing something wrong when she doesn't tell new people she meets she a Christian Stay At Home Mom?

You see my point? I fully believe that Artists who are Christians should write music, paint paintings, write books, carve sculptures etc. that represent their faith. But where do we draw the line as to what's acceptable.

When Stryper first put out the Covering, I was shocked and bummed. But I seriously doubt the guys did the album without praying about it first. I don't think it was intended to shock people.

Going back to what I started my post with, I work in he mental health field for a state facility. Since I work for the government, I legally cannot discuss my faith unless someone asks me. So how do I still spread the gospel (as Jesus commanded) while still obeying the law of the land (as Paul instructed us to do in Romans)? My actions. When someone asks, I'll share. But the bulk of my witness comes from how I treat people.

My wife is a social worker has a MSW. She was very vocal about her faith on a state job she was in. There was no mystery as to where she stood. She was a member of Christain Social Workers Association. My wife worked in a prison. In a block that had mentally ill inmates. She treated everyone with respect. They loved her. Some inmates asked her to pray with them and for them. Even some muslim inmates loved her because they could have civilized conversations with her. She was very professional. She ended up getting fired for showing faith among the problems was praying with inmates, she didnt force mind you they asked for it.....

ChosenOne wrote:

I've listened to Christian Music since way back when. It was Stryper that actually got me into Christian metal (before it was MWS, D&K, etc). Like Alldat, I wish they would've put out a whole new album of new material rather then a covers album. But that being said, it is no big deal to me. I actually enjoyed the album. So what if it is covers of secular songs, doesn't mean it's affected their faith. Kinda goes back to the old issue of, Christian bands should only play Christian concerts. And yet the ones who probably need to hear the music more is the non-Christians. Look at Skillet, they have hit big in the mainstream market opened for a who's who of mainstream rock bands, does that make them a sell out?. How about the fact that when Skillet/Disciple toured together, both John Cooper & Kevin Young did a cover of Bon Jovi's "I'll Be There For You". So was that wrong?. At the heart of the matter is their personal faith. As far as I know all 4 of the guys have a strong faith and won't compromise it. So they do a covers album of bands that influenced them in their career, big deal. I listen to both Christian music and secular music, and it doesn't affect my faith. I can jam out to Guardian, Stryper one day, and pop on some Poison or Crue the next. Stryper has always been my favorite group of all time and I highly doubt that will change.

About 5 years before I was saved. I heard my first Christain song on my then gfs apartment. It was THWTD. I couldnt believe that kinda music existed. I was so happy music for God. I didnt have to stop listening to music that I loved. Now I could listen to music that I love but for God now. That was then this is now. "The Covering" isnt edifying. They do have other material that is edifying which I like but "The Covering" isnt it for me. I wont be getting anymore Stryper music for the time being...

I'm a Christain music only Christain. Doesnt make me better Christain because I'm not just my opinion and preference..Love to all my brothers in Christ here

I haven't been part of this board for very long and haven't posted on this thread for a while, but just came today to catch up on what I've missed. I noticed the things Ascension said about how he was treated at the CMR for expressing his opinions. I have to say that I've had the same experience. This is a very touchy subject over there and the mods most certainly play favorites in the discussion. People who express opinions like Ascension has, or Rich has or I have are generally crucified over there for daring to say such things. I have been pleased to see that this discussion here has gone as far as it has without things getting out of hand. I think it's good when we allow our fellow Christians to speak their minds, even when we passionately disagree with them. As long as we don't personally attack each other, there is no reason that we should not be able to hash out such matters and let everyone express themselves. So far, I think that's been done pretty well here and I hope to see that continue to be the case.

The mods at the CMR do a heck of a fine job. Being one, I will defend them as brothers. They do their best (they are only human) to keep the peace. After years of different major scenes of drama, we are just over it when people start calling out musicians and other people and make statements against their faith just because they behave as everyone else believes they should. We do what we can to shut it down. Then, when the person we are trying to settle down gets their feelings hurt, they blow up and accuse us of trying to destroy their freedom of speech or playing favorites and all sorts of other accusations. I've been called everything from a liar to a pedophile for just doing what I am supposed to do over there. With those kinds of accusations, you have to wonder why we are so quick to shut down small sparks before they become raging wildfires.

To be honest, I should have shut this one down as well.

And so ends my hope that this place would be different. I'm sorry dude, but that was a very one sided and biased response, but I guess it's your board so you can be any way you want to be. Nothing has gotten out of hand in this discussion. Not even close. It's sad to see such intolerance for diversity of opinion, especially when we are all just trying to be true to our conscience before God. I guess this will probably get deleted or I might even get banned for saying such things, but I really think we need a place where we can openly speak our minds, so long as we can do it without beating each other up.

Preacherman777 wrote:

And so ends my hope that this place would be different. I'm sorry dude, but that was a very one sided and biased response, but I guess it's your board so you can be any way you want to be. Nothing has gotten out of hand in this discussion. Not even close. It's sad to see such intolerance for diversity of opinion, especially when we are all just trying to be true to our conscience before God. I guess this will probably get deleted or I might even get banned for saying such things, but I really think we need a place where we can openly speak our minds, so long as we can do it without beating each other up.

Brother, with all respect, that was kind of harsh. I see alldat's point. The discussion is fine, but there were several times in the last 5 pages that people got offended (or it seemed so) because other people didn't agree with them. It's also worth pointing out that the rules of the board don't guarantee our freedom of speech. This board is owned by someone other than us and they set those rules (and remember Romans says that the people God puts in authority are His choosing, even if it is a message forum).

Those same rules say (I'm paraprhrasing) that we can't tear down other people's faith. The second or third post in this very discussion says that Stryper compromised their faith.

Whether you like the album or not (I like about half of it), the guys felt they should record it for some reason. I do believe that they prayed about it. I've read several interviews where Michael has said that they pray before every album that God would lead them to the album that He wants them to do. I disagree with brokentulsa (it's cool ,we're friends ) that the band didn't care. I've read other interviews where Michael has said they don't care how many albums they sell, but if their album brings one person closer to God in some way, they've accomplished their goal as a band.

I realize that my freedom of speech is not guaranteed by a web forum and I don't expect it to be. I just think that as brothers and sisters in Christ, we ought to have more respect for each others diversity of thought and opinion, especially when, as I said before, we are all just trying to be true to our conscience before God. The problem I had at the CMR and the problem I am seeing here is people using their position or power as a means to win the debate. I don't like the opinion of the other side, so I will shut them down. Now one could use the argument that such a thing is unamerican, but again, no forum is bound to be American in their operation. Really, it's just the decent thing to do. Iron sharpens iron as the Bible says. Without question Jesus as well as the apostles were at times critical of others who did things in the name of God, so it's not like we who dare to go there are going beyond what it written. None the less, neither I, nor anyone I've seen in this thread has said that anyone else, including Stryper is evil or non Christian because of all this, so it's really not an issue of being judgmental, it's an issue of discernment. Have some people been offended by my opinion or the opinion certain others? Sure, but if we are going to be so concerned that no one ever gets offended by anything we say, then we may as well avoid discussion altogether. Either there is right and wrong in the world and such things are worth discussing or everything is relative and truth becomes irrelevant.

Also, I really don't see Romans 13 as being applicable here. No one has granted power to someone who runs a web forum. Anybody can go online and create and forum and bingo, if they can get anyone to come to their forum and use it, they have the power to censor them. Again, I just don't think it's cool to use such power to shut people up and thereby win a debate through suppression of thought. That's an abuse of power in my mind. Now of course, one can always say, if I don't like it I don't have to use it and that's right. That's why I said it's his forum and he can run it how he wants to, but then for me, yeah, I'm not gonna use it, cuz I don't play that way. The only reason I'm using it now is because there are still people engaging me in conversation and I believe in giving an answer to people whenever I can. I assume however that once he sees this, it will come to quick end.

Quote :

And so ends my hope that this place would be different. I'm sorry dude,
but that was a very one sided and biased response, but I guess it's your
board so you can be any way you want to be. Nothing has gotten out of
hand in this discussion. Not even close. It's sad to see such
intolerance for diversity of opinion, especially when we are all just
trying to be true to our conscience before God. I guess this will
probably get deleted or I might even get banned for saying such things,
but I really think we need a place where we can openly speak our minds,
so long as we can do it without beating each other up.

So me SAYING that I should have shut this one down is me being intolerant? So since I am the owner of this board, I cannot have an opinion as well? I told you about the dealings of the CMR and merely stated what I felt I SHOULD have done, but DID NOT DO IT? So that paints me as intolerant? Pot, meet kettle.

Quote :

The problem I had at the CMR and the problem I am seeing here is people
using their position or power as a means to win the debate. I don't like
the opinion of the other side, so I will shut them down. Now one could
use the argument that such a thing is unamerican, but again, no forum is
bound to be American in their operation.

How in the freakin' world did I "use my power to win a debate"? I merely stated that I felt I should have shut this down. I haven't. I did not even make a point, so how can I be using this to win a debate? And, you further add insult by calling my actions un-American? So you get to talk about anything you want but you INSULT me when all I have done is state opinions?

I seriously don't need this crap from you. If you think you can do this better, then I'll sign the ownership of this board over to you right now.

Preacherman777 wrote:

I realize that my freedom of speech is not guaranteed by a web forum and I don't expect it to be. I just think that as brothers and sisters in Christ, we ought to have more respect for each others diversity of thought and opinion, especially when, as I said before, we are all just trying to be true to our conscience before God. The problem I had at the CMR and the problem I am seeing here is people using their position or power as a means to win the debate. I don't like the opinion of the other side, so I will shut them down. Now one could use the argument that such a thing is unamerican, but again, no forum is bound to be American in their operation. Really, it's just the decent thing to do.

I was the one who shut down the last "out of control" thread (not Alldat) as a matter of fact I can't remember the last thread he shut down. I didn't do it to "win any argument". As a matter of fact I conceded a large portion of the "argument" to the original poster. I shut down the thread to keep people from attacking each other. The last time I checked there was no "debate section" on this forum. There are several sites that invite debate over Christian issues/doctrine etc., but this isn't one of them. I have been apart of a few of those sites and both of them died an untimely death due to a few individuals who tended to run everyone else off with their tirades and soap box grand-standing. I really don't want to see that happen to our board here (and by "our" I mean all of us).

Preacherman777 wrote:

It's sad to see such intolerance for diversity of opinion, especially when we are all just trying to be true to our conscience before God.

Preacherman777 wrote:

neither I, nor anyone I've seen in this thread has said that anyone else, including Stryper is evil or non Christian because of all this, so it's really not an issue of being judgmental, it's an issue of discernment.

I also find it a little strange that you espouse "diversity of thought" and "tolerance" on one hand, but claim that a group of Christians who rerecord music from secular bands have "hurt their witness" or have some "lack of discernment". Where is the tolerance for Stryper? Do you know their intentions? I'm honestly not trying to attack you or what you have said, I just don't understand you. You seem to be trodding a fine line of what is or isn't acceptable. According to what you have said in the past, I can listen to Styx or Boston, but somehow I lack discernment if I listen to Strypers cover's album?

Preacherman777 wrote:

Anybody can go online and create and forum and bingo, if they can get anyone to come to their forum and use it, they have the power to censor them. Again, I just don't think it's cool to use such power to shut people up and thereby win a debate through suppression of thought. That's an abuse of power in my mind. Now of course, one can always say, if I don't like it I don't have to use it and that's right. That's why I said it's his forum and he can run it how he wants to, but then for me, yeah, I'm not gonna use it, cuz I don't play that way. The only reason I'm using it now is because there are still people engaging me in conversation and I believe in giving an answer to people whenever I can. I assume however that once he sees this, it will come to quick end.

I don't know how anyone could read that and not see it as a passive agressive attack. And you wonder why someone wouldn't just get fed up with this type of conversation and shut it down? Honestly?

People please keep in mind this is a written/read conversation. It can be very difficult to discern a persons emotional level in writing. Just so you all know none of my responses here are done it anger or disgust (mostly just frustration).

Preacherman777 wrote:

I realize that my freedom of speech is not guaranteed by a web forum and I don't expect it to be. I just think that as brothers and sisters in Christ, we ought to have more respect for each others diversity of thought and opinion, especially when, as I said before, we are all just trying to be true to our conscience before God. The problem I had at the CMR and the problem I am seeing here is people using their position or power as a means to win the debate. I don't like the opinion of the other side, so I will shut them down. Now one could use the argument that such a thing is unamerican, but again, no forum is bound to be American in their operation. Really, it's just the decent thing to do. Iron sharpens iron as the Bible says. Without question Jesus as well as the apostles were at times critical of others who did things in the name of God, so it's not like we who dare to go there are going beyond what it written. None the less, neither I, nor anyone I've seen in this thread has said that anyone else, including Stryper is evil or non Christian because of all this, so it's really not an issue of being judgmental, it's an issue of discernment. Have some people been offended by my opinion or the opinion certain others? Sure, but if we are going to be so concerned that no one ever gets offended by anything we say, then we may as well avoid discussion altogether. Either there is right and wrong in the world and such things are worth discussing or everything is relative and truth becomes irrelevant.

Also, I really don't see Romans 13 as being applicable here. No one has granted power to someone who runs a web forum. Anybody can go online and create and forum and bingo, if they can get anyone to come to their forum and use it, they have the power to censor them. Again, I just don't think it's cool to use such power to shut people up and thereby win a debate through suppression of thought. That's an abuse of power in my mind. Now of course, one can always say, if I don't like it I don't have to use it and that's right. That's why I said it's his forum and he can run it how he wants to, but then for me, yeah, I'm not gonna use it, cuz I don't play that way. The only reason I'm using it now is because there are still people engaging me in conversation and I believe in giving an answer to people whenever I can. I assume however that once he sees this, it will come to quick end.

I agree - we can give our opinion. But you're really coming across (whether you mean to or not, I don't know) as just as "intolerant" as those at the CMR. Because some people disagree with you, "they're wrong" and "they hurt you". Was it really necessary to call out the mods at another board to make your point?

Now, I don't say all that to say you didn't have a bad experience or that you didn't get hurt. My point was that you're complaining about how people act when you disagree with them, then acting the same way when they disagree. Again, this may not be your intention, but that's how it came across to me (and I think a few others).

As far as the Romans thing, I think it does apply. Just because alldat has authority that we give him every time we sign in to the board doesn't mean he's running the board on accident. God is sovereign, is He not?

Finally, as far as "right and wrong" and "truth is irrelevant", could this situation be the same as (again) in Romans where Paul says some can eat meat sacrificed to idols and others can't? Could some bands be given the freedom to record secular covers and it still work for God's glory, since all things work for His glory? Sometimes "Right and Wrong" are dependent on the liberty God has given a person.

rich71 wrote:

brokentulsa wrote:

When it comes down to it I think stryper recorded this album because they wanted to and really didn't care what anyone thought. Oz being in tattoo vinyl shows his views...which I agree with.

Nothing more really needs to be said about that right. We know were Oz Fox stands. Look where he is. Its about the Love of God and singing music that uplifts, honors, and glorifies God.

Vinyl Tattoo, doesnt do that.

This is a CHRISTian Hard Music Forum correct.

Rich that sounds like a personal attack on Oz and as if you are questioning his faith. Please clarify If that was not your intent. If it was your intent, please refrain from doing so.

Correct, this is a Christian Music Forum, and with very few exceptions the vast majority of threads are only about Christain bands. Keep in mind that the definition of "Christian band" has become very difficult to nail down in the last decade or so, but the majority of conversation here centers around Christian bands, or bands with mostly Christian members. But occasionally conversations about side projects (be they secular or Christian) performed by Christian artists will come up, and they are not "off limits" as a rule.

Alldat, can we take a step back here? I think you have seriously misunderstood some things I said. First, I in no way at any time attacked you for having your opinion. It seemed to me that you were saying that you should have shut this thread down because of people like me. That's the impression I got from what you said. You seemed to describe people like me as being responsible for so much drama and trouble over at the CMR. Not seeming to recognize that the other side contributed to those difficulties. I have repeatedly said throughout this thread that I understand other people will think differently than I do about this issue and that I respect their right to do so. I don't know any way I could have been more clear about that. Again, the impression I got from you was that you felt that because of people like me and the opinions we express, this thread should have been shut down. If I misunderstood you, I'm sorry. But that's how I took it. A lot of people besides me have expressed the feeling that the mods at the CMR behave in biased ways in order to shut opposing points of view. I am far from being the only one to ever say that. I used to run a Christian Rock board. Classic Christian Rock and Metal. It existed for about 10 years and was around several years before the CMR, but many of the people who ended up at the CMR used to frequent my forum as well. So I know what it is to run one of these boards, and I'm not saying you're so bad at it, I'm just saying that I never used the power I had to shut down an opposing view. Now, having said that, you make a good point. You haven't actually done that here. After what you said, I was pretty sure that you would or that you at least wanted to, but no, you're right, you haven't, so I do give you credit for that.

The second thing is that no, I did not say you were being unamerican. I said, and this is only because I've heard people use this argument on these boards...

" Now one could use the argument that such a thing is unamerican, but again, no forum is bound to be American in their operation."

I was just pointing out that some people try to use that argument as if to assert that a forum should be required to protect their right to free speech. I offered up the point for the very purpose of arguing against it myself, so as to make it clear that it was not MY argument, since Ishmael81 said to me...

"It's also worth pointing out that the rules of the board don't guarantee our freedom of speech."

So no, I was not saying you are unamerican.

Come on Brothers...everyone chill.

When I was first on the cmr and started getting to know the mods a little I realized that some had the same views as me and some different. Me and alldat have the same taste in Christian metal but he is a Christian only listener and I listen to both Christian and secular. Thats cool and we each respect that about the other. On this board I forgot that a few weeks ago and got kinda ignorant with a few here but the lord used Chris and staybrite to enlighten me (thanks guys ) and all is well. I respect Alldat and everyone else who is christian music only and appreciate that they respect my views. The cmr is alot bigger board with alot more views on it and some of those views are held by some who are very radical in their thinking. I think the mods do a great job over their and here and I appreciate Alldat for having this board. I left the CMR specifically because after prayer concerning some of the discussions over their I felt the lord tell me to leave..it had nothing to do with the mods. I think Alldat has been very patient with this board and in allowing everyone to voice their views and opinions and has been real cool with following scripture in dealing with those who step out of line at times (thanks guys )
We all step out of line at times and we all say things that may offend at times but we should all be forgiving of that and each other....We all have different theological views at times but we all worship the same God and put our faith in the same Messiah.

Ok, since there are a few people asking me about the same sort of things, I'm gonna just try and deal generally with some of what's been asked of me. On the question of should I be asking for tolerance toward diversity of thought on the board, when I am not granting that myself? I disagree that I am not granting that. I have not put anyone down or said they were not Christian for having a different opinion than me. On the contrary, the only reason I'm still in this discussion is because people seem to be really bothered by the fact that I think Stryper has compromised their witness by covering the artists and songs they covered. Please keep in mind that the album itself is only the tip of the iceberg when you have Oz Fox out there singing Highway to Hell in a secular band. I realize that people think I'm being unfairly judgmental towards Stryper and if I'm willing to listen to some secular music, where do I get off doing that. I have already stated that I'm very picky about what secular music I listen and that even what I do listen to, I listen to it very little. There is a difference between tolerating diversity of thought and opinion over how much we should be in the world as Christians and tolerating mixing the things of darkness with the things of light. It's the difference between that which is by and large neutral to the things of God and that which is clearly opposed to the things of God. I see Stryper as having entertained and promoted the things of darkness with this album. Again, this is my opinion and all I am doing is stating it, but seems to be my stating it that is causing all the problems. I don't have anything against anyone for disagreeing with me, but I'm not so sure that others feel the same about me.

Back to the Romans 13 thing. Even if the argument could be valid that the running of this board constitutes God given authority, that authority would only be valid so long as one is willing to be a part of that system and that is why I said, if the system functions the way I feared, then I could not be a part of it.

Why did I point out the perceived abuses of mod power over at the CMR? Because they are the very reason that I don't participate in discussions over there anymore. I was not referring to any thread that has been shut down here. I was saying that I was concerned, based on what it seemed like Alldat was saying, that it would work the same way here. For me, the question is basically the same as asking why did colonists point out the their complaints against King George. Because they believed there was a better way to do things. In the same way, I believe there is a better way to do things than how they are typically done at the CMR and was hoping to find that better way at this board, but again Alldats statements gave me concern that it would actually be the same and so I was hoping to appeal to a fairer and more reasonable approach. In fact, I will apologize right now to him and to the rest of you for suggesting that it's the same way here, because in fact, I have not actually seen that happen here the same way as there. I just feared that might be the case based on what he said.

Finally, if I were on here ranting and raving that Styper are not Christian and/or that anyone here who listens to them or to this record is gonna go to Hell, then I could see why people would have a problem with me, but that's not what I'm doing and not what I'm about. Not even close.

Quote :

I see Stryper as having entertained and promoted the things of darkness with this album.

let me ask you an honest question and you give an honest yes or no answer...

Do you think those of us who not only listen to stryper's "the Covering" but also listen to the bands, albums and songs they covered as promoting the things of darkness. Think about this before you answer.

I always think before I answer. Doesn't mean I'm gonna come up with a good response. But I always think. Not sure if you saw the last statement on my last post, cuz I added it a little later, but it somewhat speaks to your question. Never the less, there is a difference between listening to the music and promoting the music. If you listen to ungodly bands or music, you are only promoting it to yourself, unless of course you go around encouraging others to listen to it as well. Stryper has a position of influence, whether they like it or not and there are people who look up to them. That should bear upon them some sense of responsibility, especially when they have built their careers on the name of Jesus. The average person has a much smaller circle of influence, but yes, I do think we are all responsible for the message we send out to those we do influence. No matter who you are, if you send out a message that it's ok to be entertained by that which is ungodly and sinful, you are creating a harmful witness.

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The last time I checked there was no "debate section" on this forum. There are several sites that invite debate over Christian issues/doctrine etc., but this isn't one of them.

Then let me ask a question. Is debate or passionate discussion over the differing ideas not permitted at this board? If that's the case, then it would seem there are some threads that should have not been allowed to even get off the ground.

So I'm assuming then since there seems to be some issues with Christians doing a covers album of secular songs, that there will be issues then with Liberty N Justice's The Cigar Chronicles, right?. Or is this just an opinion on Stryper?. And no I have no problem with LNJ's new album at all either, but I was just curious?. I would venture to guess that not every Christian muscian out there is influenced by other Christian artist, so honestly (no pun intended) what's the big deal with them covering their favorites.