The Ramblings of a Hardened Heart?

I'm always influenced by my job and I work with so many boys that are hurt because their parents didn't marry or got divorced that even if you aren't saved I think you need to consider the hurt you will hand down.

Marriage is definitely ideal for people who want children.  Having had one mother and 3 different fathers I can attest that divorce is hardest on chilren.  And parents of children who refuse to get married (but just cohabitate) send a terrible message to their children.

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

So from your POV as fellow believers, do you think it's pointless for me to push my son to "do the right thing" and marry this girl at such young ages (when the Biblical institution of marriage doesn't really apply to either of these non-believers) ?
Should I preach at my daughter to not fornicate since it's legally adultery ?  Does any of this really matter when there are NO believers in this scenario at all ?

The only believers are the parents who've already made their stand clear from early childhood.

What if I were to be like my mom and tell my son over and over how he really should get married to her, that he needs to do it the right way, and not "live in sin", etc.... Perhaps his unsaved GF and him won't be married long at all.... then I'd have another divorced child.

Again, just rambling thoughts for anyone who's interested or intrigued.

Several thoughts:

1.  I think it would be counter-productive to push, nag, "preach at", etc. your kids to get married. 
2.  I cannot imagine how heartbreaking it is to watch your children kick the values and faith you raised them with to the curb.
3.  Scripture tells us to train our children in the way they should go and when they are older they won't depart from it.  I know it may not seem like it, but those things you and your wife taught your children (and continue to teach them) are still in there and still working on them.
4.  I think your approach to enforce your standards and your values in your home is great.  You aren't badgering or insisting your children do things your way "or else," you are respecting their rights as adults to chose for themselves how they will live their lives while maintaining that consistent standard.  I think this approach is a more loving, more effective, and ultimately more Christlike way of getting them to return to the root values you instilled in them.
5.  I do agree with Staybrite and Redeemed Fool's last two posts as well.  When children are involved, marriage is the ideal, but it is only ideal when it comes from a desire to be committed and joined together and not because someone browbeat them into it.

Some extremely great stuff here everyone. 
 
Everything under the umbrella of God's children has been made perfectly clear, as I expected from such grounded believers as we have here. Some of you have touched on those outside that umbrella too, which is where I was confused the most - or should I say, I've been having different ways of viewing them than before when it comes to marriage.
 
I just feel like in the church as well as people who were raised by believers, there seems to be this "guilt" or need to "do things right" in the backs of their mind - and some scenarios have believers pushing (gently or harshly) a couple involved in a sexual relationship to get married.

She Eats Cheese brought up something I've seen first hand before: there are Pastors who refuse to marry a couple living together. I find that interesting. Are these Pastors right ? Seems like it to me for one reason or another. But then, if the couple want to get married and have expressed a true faith, why allow them to remain "in sin" and not marry them ? Who's the judge on these matters ? I would imagine these would be hard things for a Pastor to decide on.
 
I had a Pastor/friend (who ended up losing 75% of his congregation over multiple hypocrasies and his power trip---another story for another time though), but he told one couple he wouldn't marry them cuz they were living together, they got mad and left the church (don't know all the details, but they were very involved in the church), then later he married a couple who WERE ALSO living together but they promised him they weren't fooling around (was that a lie ? Who knows ? who makes these rules and decisions ?? it seems whacky to me).
 
Thankfully both couples I just mentioned are still married (that was about 8 years ago).

The desire to bond in marriage for a lifetime commitment to that one person is so much more heavy than whether their early physical desires for each other cause them to have sex before that bond.

And back to the original topic, I still question whether or not God's holy institution of marriage applies to those outside the church and whether we should be pushing marriage. I think someone else here made the point that we should be more concerned about their relationship with God and salvation than whether they are living in sin or whatever.

I used to believe life was black and white.  Now I only believe in shades of gray.

I'm hearin' ya my friend !

messiaen77 wrote:

I used to believe life was black and white.  Now I only believe in shades of gray.

Oh man the older I get the more this is true.

messiaen77 wrote:

I used to believe life was black and white.  Now I only believe in shades of gray.

…hopefully not 50!

Staybrite wrote:

messiaen77 wrote:

I used to believe life was black and white.  Now I only believe in shades of gray.

Oh man the older I get the more this is true.

Agreed.  I used to think I knew a whole lot more than I really feel like I do now.

alldatndensum wrote:

Staybrite wrote:

messiaen77 wrote:

I used to believe life was black and white.  Now I only believe in shades of gray.

Oh man the older I get the more this is true.

Agreed.  I used to think I knew a whole lot more than I really feel like I do now.

Back when I was young and dumb I was convinced I knew everything (which couldn't have been further from the truth). Seems to me the more knowledge I accumulate through the years, the more I realize I don't know. At some point I plan to learn so much that I won't know anything.

We can be 100% sure of the basic tenets of our faith. Who God is, what our Messiah has done for us, and that He indeed cares about each of our lives.

I strongly believe there are no gray areas in these basic doctrines that are clearly taught in Scripture and that bring us together as a family under the One Father.

That obviousness aside, there are many gray areas in the rest of life. On the subject at hand, I'm growing to believe in many gray areas... I don't know that we can put any black or whites on the issues.