Thought Provoking Chatter....

Feeling inspired by other threads elsewhere, mainly from Facebook, I typed up something that was on my mind/heart and just wanted to share it here as well.
I'm not right in everything, so I always appreciate input, criticism, and thoughts from others. Please share your heart on this as well.

I've a thought...
Is it not detrimental for believers to place Christian musicians in a higher position than the rest of us ?
Or ask "Is so-and-so still a Christian ?" Or gossip about the latest scandal or falling away of a fellow believer (whether they were true believers or not) ? 
Christians are humans, still 100% fallen. The ONLY advantage we have over others in this world, is that Jesus chose to save us and we said yes (however that works... without gettin' into that whole realm of Salvific discussion).  The main point I'd like to make is this, every believer is a work in progress, growing in their walk, changing during their walk, and make multiple mistakes even after coming to faith. No exception. It's a journey, this salvation we've been given -a journey. We don't say a prayer one day, get saved, then we're a Christian who has it all together till we die. No, rather the opposite, we come to faith, then we begin to grow from Christian infancy to a mature believer. This is different for every believer. Some take 40 to 60 years to grow mature, other are blessed with maturity at an earlier walk with Jesus. But there's nothing that says coming to faith makes us sinless, or gives us the ability to become perfect, or somehow we can attain holiness someday. We ARE ALREADY these things to the Father because of Christ's Great Exchange program we eternally belong to. HE sees us as holy, perfect, acceptable to Him, and yes, sinless - that's the only way we can even stand in His presence.

With all this in mind, it then seems silly to me for anyone to stand in judgment of whether a Christian musician is still "saved" or "still a Christian" just cuz he/she has stumbled... or a believer in a band screwed up big time, falling to the temptations that all of us face at one point or another.  Aren't they on the same journey ? Just at a different stage than other believers ? Are YOU immune to your specific sin that you fail at ?  We all have something that we're weak at. During our walks we even believe things that we later realize were aberrant. Thank God He teaches us and changes our minds on these things... the same goes for musicians who may be off on something aberrant right now. If they are a true child of God, they'll come around. We should definitely point out that the artist is wrong, and give reasons why he/she is wrong... but it may be a temporary mistake on their part. 
Shouldn't we extend the hand of forgiveness and understanding to Christian musicians the same way we'd like that hand extended to us WHEN we fall/fail ?

I do not see a reason to view artists as different than other believers. Though they ARE in the spotlight, and as such, are in a position to reach more people than a believer who works at Wal-Mart - with a responsibility to represent to much larger audiences than, say, a Christian janitor. For that, they will have to answer to God for whatever they do, but not to us. We don't have the rights to sit in judgment over another believer.

I've been on both sides of this.  When I was a new believer, I held my favorite Christian artists up high, to a different level. They were "idols" to me, as I felt they lead "exemplary lives" and "could do no wrong" in my eyes (sure, this sounds foolish on my part -and it was- but I see others doing the same thing, which is why I felt the need to write this). As my favorite artists began to leave the Christian labels, get caught in adultery, succumb to cocaine use, and even murder - I began to feel betrayed, upset, and judgmental.  But as time passed, I seen many, not all, of these believers get back up, brush off their dirty clothes and go back to walking with the Lord.  I learned that I cannot throw any stones.  I learned that all believers, regardless of position, are mere humans capable of any and all sinful acts, including myself. And Christian artists who entertain us are no different. 

In an "ideal" world of Christianity, none of us would give the world reason to call us hypocrites.  An ideal world would have us being "above reproach" so that we could lead people to the Lord based on our righteousness... that ain't the case though.  In the real world, some of the people Christ allowed me to lead to Him, say the same thing- I was "real".  I wasn't a Christian who was perfect, who gave them the impression that Christianity was about being good and perfect, rather, I was a real human, with real problems and real sins I deal with daily... cuz of that, and the fact that I didn't try to hide those sins and act all perfect, people took note of my beliefs and asked me about salvation and about Christ. I was able to witness to people cuz, though I was trying to walk in holiness, I know I'm not holy and can't pull one on anyone, and therefore I allow my imperfections to show through... this is what attracted non-believers to me.  Ironic but true. Cuz I was unable to live this perfect life (that some pastors, and others, push from the pulpit) I allowed my human-ness to be very evident, and in doing so, people wanted to hear about the Savior who saves us from our own sin, not by removing it from our earthly lives, but by exchanging it for His righteousness. 

I am thankful that God has used me - and as I've grown over the years, I've seen others come to faith cuz of artists and other Christians in the spotlight who have failed, who allowed their human side to show through clearly. Let us not be like the Pharisees who seemed to have it all together, saying, doing, wearing the right things - who sit back and point fingers at those believers who fail miserably. Let's be the ones who stick by the side of a screwed up believer and extend a hand to them... just as Jesus would.

I read this on Facebook.  Well said!

Not sure why I got so inspired by a few people's comments, but I just did.  Felt the need to start writing... next thing I know, I have a huge essay on the subject -haha !
No one will prolly even read it since I chattered on so long... haha

That's funny!  I almost let the length scare me off.

I admit it, I just skimmed, but I am totally with you on this.  Sometimes I just see person after person get on something and I just feel like writing something like this.  Then I remember I'm too lazy and don't do it.   

I like what you said about not standing in judgement over other believers.  I hear all the time "we're called to be fruit inspectors," but I don't really think that is Biblical.  Somehow it seems we've changed "you will know them by their fruits" to "go make sure everyone is bearing the same fruit as you."  Honestly, I have enough trouble with my own fruit to go worrying about everyone else's.  I swear, sometimes we seem an awful lot like the guy in the parable who was forgiven a major debt and then turned around and called for justice on the guy who owed him a minor debt.  Overall it seems we don't do grace well.

OUCH!!!  But so true!

I would have responded earlier but it took me a full day to read the post!  I have to say I agree with you (at least as I understand it).  I will say that I don't think it is gossip if you are concerned about anyone's salvation if their words or actions seem contrary to faith, but only in so much as you hope to pray for them...and certainly not gossip about them.

I also take the time to read what Guilty/Forgiven has written.

Quote :

...but it took me a full day to read the post!

Quote :

I will say that I don't think it is gossip if you are concerned about anyone's salvation if their words or actions seem contrary to faith, but only in so much as you hope to pray for them...and certainly not gossip about them.

Totally agree ! Good point.

Whether we are discussing musicians/bands or talking about people in the church we see every Sunday, we have to remember that we are all on a spiritual journey to get closer to God through Jesus as we gain trust and knowledge of Him.  Some are further along in that journey than we are and some have barely begun.  Keeping that in mind will help us to not to hold people up too high or try to keep them down.  At one point in our lives, we will be compared by someone else and they will either try to hold us back or will elevate us too high.  Either way, it lessens a person's value to other believers when we do this.

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

Quote :

I will say that I don't think it is gossip if you are concerned about anyone's salvation if their words or actions seem contrary to faith, but only in so much as you hope to pray for them...and certainly not gossip about them.

Totally agree ! Good point.

I see what you're getting at here but I think people sometimes use this the wrong way.

For instance - you see a singer of a band you like be a jerk in an interview. Does this mean he lost his faith? Or is he just having a bad day?

The other side is what I call "Prayer gossip". - "Hey staybrite, did you hear about ishmael81 and his drinking issues? I guess we should pray for him because he's really puttin' 'em down..."

ishmael81 wrote:

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

Quote :

I will say that I don't think it is gossip if you are concerned about anyone's salvation if their words or actions seem contrary to faith, but only in so much as you hope to pray for them...and certainly not gossip about them.

Totally agree ! Good point.

I see what you're getting at here but I think people sometimes use this the wrong way.

For instance - you see a singer of a band you like be a jerk in an interview. Does this mean he lost his faith? Or is he just having a bad day?

The other side is what I call "Prayer gossip". - "Hey staybrite, did you hear about ishmael81 and his drinking issues? I guess we should pray for him because he's really puttin' 'em down..."

I have heard way too much of that "prayer gossip" stuff.  Really ticks me off, and I agree with you.

Ishmael has a drinking problem???  Oh my?  Tell me more so I can pray about it better! 

I think ALL of us need to get together for a beer... Kerrick's treat !!

Some of us don't drink beer.  Can I just get some southern style sweet tea?

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

I think ALL of us need to get together for a beer... Kerrick's treat !!

Ha well once I win the lotto, let's do it!  I'll buy Alldat his fancy tea too.  Until then... it may be a BYOB sorta deal...

Code Red for me, please!

alldatndensum wrote:

Some of us don't drink beer.  Can I just get some southern style sweet tea?

Me neither. Though I like an ice cold one, my pancreas does not.  I guess I can thank my Mom's side of the family for their bum pancreases, which prevents me from drinking. My Dad's side are all alcoholics, so again, very good thing that I can't drink