Are they really Christian?

Not that I didn't have knowledge of this before, but I suppose I pushed it out of my mind.  I didn't want to accept it, there are Christian bands who aren't really Christian.  After reading Tim Lambesis' interview and saying that AILD hadn't actually been really Christian for a while now, the reality of it was forced into the forefront of my mind.  He said they had toured with many bands whose members had lost faith.  Another classic case is the member of Five Iron Frenzy whom rejected his faith years ago.  So this begs the question, how many are really out there witnessing to a faith they don't even believe in?  How many fakers are out there playing the festivals, going through the motions, and fearing to come out of the atheist closet because of sales?  We need to pray for Tim, and everyone involved in the Christian industry that they keep the faith and rekindle the fire that made them start Christian bands to begin with!

I'm sure there are quite a few Christian bands out there with members that aren't professing believers.
What's more is that there are probably several more bands with members who claim to be Christian that hold beliefs that many bible believing Christians would think heretical or at the very least outside of sound doctrine.

Yeah, I know.  It's so disturbing.

It's to be expected. Jesus said there would be many who hear and believe but have no root and fall away. I pray the truth they've heard will convict them.

I would venture to compare "working in a band" no different than jobs in other "Christian" industries.

Not everyone who does the landscaping for a church, not everyone who works at a Christian bookstore, not everyone who works at a Church ran "soup kitchen", or Church thrift store... etc etc etc
are Christians. They may have been raised with the faith, sympathetic towards the faith... they may not even care about the faith so much as they do "being in a clean, ethical environment" - maybe they have strong morals. There are people that are referred to as "good Christian" people because of their strong moral stands that are in line with Christianity.

So ultimately, just cuz they work and get a paycheck in a Christian environment, doesn't mean they are truly saved/chosen/believers (however one titles actual believers)

As far as AILD, I could never judge anyone in the band aside from fruits that say otherwise. Lambesis has been schizophrenic in his writings leaving many to wonder what he actually believes.
The rest of his band were screwed out of their livelihood cuz of Tim's foolish decisions - people don't seem to think about all the families Tim affected when he began steroids and propositions to kill his wife. His band members may be in the true faith, or some of them may be - regardless, they were placed in a messed up place when Tim did that. He was the head of that group and therefore responsible for the income of his band-mates and their families. I hoped for months after it happened that they'd find out it was all a mistake, but now with all the evidence, I've lost all respect for that man and feel bad for his band-mates.

I don't understand why they would bother though since the Christian hard music scene is so much smaller than the secular. If they were in it for the money, why would they want the Christian tag?

^ good point

topshot rhit wrote:

I don't understand why they would bother though since the Christian hard music scene is so much smaller than the secular. If they were in it for the money, why would they want the Christian tag?

I'm supposing that it's because there are lots more Christian bands that get some modicum of recognition, versus a gazillion secular bands that never go anywhere. Since the Christian market is smaller, bands have more chance of commercial success, even though their success isn't as great as if they had "made it" in the secular market. I think I remember Mick Rowe of Tempest saying something to that effect.

The hardcore market seems to have quite a bit of crossover too, both secular and "christians" listening to AILD or DH or August Burns Red.

I had no idea until a few months ago that Brian Khairullah (Deliverance) was now an atheist.

That's very sad news.

It seems in Christian band it goes on the same way as in this world.
People are losing their faith.

Well I seem to be one of a dying breed in that, the way I see Scriptural teaching and the way I believe is: people don't walk away from salvation (thus losing it), but they can walk away from faith. Difference ? Salvation is kept in heaven by God for all eternity - the child of God never stops being a child as that person is sealed with the Spirit forever - permanent adoption. I know some disagree with this, but I will personally hold this view for as long as I live.

One who turns their back on God, may have never known His true saving Grace in the first place. Then there are those who become embittered from an experience and are mad at God - I have been there, yet knew in my heart I was still His. No different than those times I was mad at my own Dad - he never stopped being my Dad, our relationship was just strained.

Those who've left the faith altogether and speak out against it, that's another story. I believe they were never sealed and filled with the Holy Spirit to begin with. Again, my interpretation of NT Grace is becoming less and less popular, but it's what I hold onto.

I've learned not to judge people like Brian Khairullah, cuz everyone's story is different. There have been stories of believers who "left" the faith and spoke out against it... only to later embrace it again. My belief: the Spirit sealed in that person wouldn't stop drawing them back to the Father. I've seen it. Let's hope this for Brian. I still hope it for VR lead singer... he ain't dead yet !

Which fits with what I said about the parable of the seed. Some embrace it with joy but have no root, as you say, not sealed.

^ Yup !

rockerVu2 wrote:

That's very sad news.

It seems in Christian band it goes on the same way as in this world.
People are losing their faith.

Losing My Religion
R.E.M. recognized this terrible fate back in 1991
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Driven wrote:

I'm supposing that it's because there are lots more Christian bands that get some modicum of recognition, versus a gazillion secular bands that never go anywhere. Since the Christian market is smaller, bands have more chance of commercial success, even though their success isn't as great as if they had "made it" in the secular market. I think I remember Mick Rowe of Tempest saying something to that effect.

That's a very good point. There is also the hope of cross-over: "perhaps if I can make it in the Christian market, someone in the secular market might notice me." Or more directly: "once I get my foothold in the Christian market I can start writing songs that will get me noticed in the secular market." Examples of the latter are Amy Grant and the Oak Ridge Boys. I'm not saying that went into the business with the goal of getting into the secular market, but it wasn't until they started writing more secular-type lyrics that they made it big outside the Christian market, and one can't help but wonder if they would have ever been noticed if they had stuck to their roots. In the case of the Oak Ridge Boys, they were really big as a Southern Gospel Quartet -- put out a LOT of records and wrote music with very poignant Christian lyrics ("The Baptism of Jesse Taylor", "King Jesus", "Jesus is Coming Soon", "After Calvary", ... ), but when they did songs like "Elvira", "Bobby Sue", and "Ball and Chain" they became household names. I'll wager that young artists trying to get into the business today hear stories like that and think they have a better chance of making it big that way then they do playing in bars for the rest of their life.

BearDad wrote:

Driven wrote:

I'm supposing that it's because there are lots more Christian bands that get some modicum of recognition, versus a gazillion secular bands that never go anywhere. Since the Christian market is smaller, bands have more chance of commercial success, even though their success isn't as great as if they had "made it" in the secular market. I think I remember Mick Rowe of Tempest saying something to that effect.

That's a very good point. There is also the hope of cross-over: "perhaps if I can make it in the Christian market, someone in the secular market might notice me." Or more directly: "once I get my foothold in the Christian market I can start writing songs that will get me noticed in the secular market." Examples of the latter are Amy Grant and the Oak Ridge Boys. I'm not saying that went into the business with the goal of getting into the secular market, but it wasn't until they started writing more secular-type lyrics that they made it big outside the Christian market, and one can't help but wonder if they would have ever been noticed if they had stuck to their roots. In the case of the Oak Ridge Boys, they were really big as a Southern Gospel Quartet -- put out a LOT of records and wrote music with very poignant Christian lyrics ("The Baptism of Jesse Taylor", "King Jesus", "Jesus is Coming Soon", "After Calvary", ... ), but when they did songs like "Elvira", "Bobby Sue", and "Ball and Chain" they became household names. I'll wager that young artists trying to get into the business today hear stories like that and think they have a better chance of making it big that way then they do playing in bars for the rest of their life.

Don't forget Evanescence. I remember when they were being pushed as a huge Christian act because their single (Wake Me Up) was on MTV. Then after they got popular, they dropped the Christian thing and acted like it never happened.

Tim Lambesis has recently confessed he was an atheist for the past few years. Maybe you've heard of it already, but a quick search for the article gave me this:
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Yeah, I saw that..... :/
So sad and disturbing...........

We have gone to Christian concerts lately, where you don't hear the name of Christ ONE time! Such an opportunity to reach people, and it is just tossed away   Ministry is not the focus with most of these bands anymore.....

Pastor Bob (Beeman) confronted this issue several years ago. He noticed at festivals that upstart bands were demanding immediately after the show, "Where's our money?!!". Pastor Bob spoke out about the ministry behind Christian bands. That it was their duty to promote Christianity on stage and off.

It isn't just an issue with music artists.  I don't think that a lot of Christians use much of their time pointing to Christ.  We aren't trying to share the gospel on a regular basis.  We aren't really striving to build up disciples.

When Dale Huffman and I were at Cornerstone back in 2006, we both came to the conclusion that probably 80-85 percent of the bands at the festival weren't there to minister, but to try and get noticed, hoping to land a record deal.

A lot of Christian bands aren't there to minister.  They're there to tout their wares.  They want to be musicians and make a living playing music.  I say if you want to be an entertainer, be an entertainer.  Just don't hide behind your faith and make it look like something it's not.

I am beginning to think that CHRISTIANS as a whole are no longer here to minister.  It has little to do with bands.

alldatndensum wrote:

I am beginning to think that CHRISTIANS as a whole are no longer here to minister.  It has little to do with bands.

Good, good.  Let the hate flow through you