Retrospect Records / Time Warp / Evil Eye / Strikeforce

Well, let's see how these CDs are.  I placed a nice sized order today.

Me too, I place a order for seven discs yesterday.

Only 8?  Slacker.  LOL

If I understand this right, this company takes old out-of-print albums, remasters them, and sells CD copies of them...without the copyright holder's permission. 

If I have that right, folks, this is wrong. It is sin. And we must not take part in it. First, it's illegal. The copyright holders, even if they've not been vigorous in enforcement, have all the rights to this music. I'm frankly amazed that they've not been busted for this already. Second, it's still stealing. Just because the copyright holders are choosing not to re-release the music doesn't entitle anyone else to take it and do so. We seem to have this idea that we have a right to music and if some copyright holder won't re-release it, we can just take a copy from some other (illegal) source. I know, because I felt that way for a long time and I hear and see the same attitude in others.

We are commanded by God to obey the civil authorities placed over us, except when to do so would violate God's Word. Those civil authorities have placed limits on copyrights that we must respect or we are in direct disobedience to our Lord.

As an example of how it can be done legally, at least sometimes, I wanted to download a copy of Messiah Prophet's "Master of the Metal". I tracked down the copyright holder of that material (I love the internet!), and I sent them a formal request to obtain one copy of that album as a download from a friend. I think they were stunned that someone did that, and they approved it. So, I downloaded it and have enjoyed it, and I had the copyright holder's permission to do it. I realize this can't be done in many cases, but in those cases, we still cannot condone just taking it.

Let's be perfect in this as our Heavenly Father is perfect in everything. We fail so much in our lives following Him, but there are times when it really is black and white. Let's set the example for the world to follow by obeying Him and thus obeying the law with respect to copyright.

Wow....you went through all that trouble to DOWNLOAD that album?

That seems preposterous and highly hypocritical.

First, that cd was reissued some years ago and you can find the unopened cds for under $17, so it seems a little cheap to go that route.

Secondly, by downloading it, whether you had "permission" or not, you were downloading from someone who was sharing it without permission and thus it was still done illegally.

I understand the point you are making, but to be honest i don't really care. In the overall scheme of things this is small.

Have you ever gone over the speed limit?

Have you ever not come to a complete stop at a stop sign at 3 in the morning when no one was on the road?

eBay store seller kfreemenusa still has it available brand new for 16, and he has had it in stock for a long time, that is where i bought mine. I believe he used to own an online cd store but had to downsize and go to eBay. I bought mine from him, as well as a bunch of others over the years.

Maybe try supporting legitimate businesses and releases before spending so much effort to get a free copy.

Sheesh.

And just so you know, Retrospect Records is a legitimate record company that has a roster of current bands that they have under contract. They even have things set up at various metal fests promoting their bands that are playing there.

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If I understand this right, this company takes old out-of-print albums, remasters them, and sells CD copies of them...without the copyright holder's permission.

While these very well could be bootlegs, they could also be licensed releases.  Without doing a full investigation, I have no more knowledge that these are or are not official releases.  Neither do you.  Unless the actual copyright holder discovers this and challenges this, then I am going to assume that these are legally obtained and will buy them with no guilt whatsoever.

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If I have that right, folks, this is wrong. It is sin. And we must not take part in it. First, it's illegal. The copyright holders, even if they've not been vigorous in enforcement, have all the rights to this music. I'm frankly amazed that they've not been busted for this already. Second, it's still stealing. Just because the copyright holders are choosing not to re-release the music doesn't entitle anyone else to take it and do so. We seem to have this idea that we have a right to music and if some copyright holder won't re-release it, we can just take a copy from some other (illegal) source. I know, because I felt that way for a long time and I hear and see the same attitude in others.

We are commanded by God to obey the civil authorities placed over us, except when to do so would violate God's Word. Those civil authorities have placed limits on copyrights that we must respect or we are in direct disobedience to our Lord.

Thank you so much for being so quick to judge when you don't have all the facts, Jack.  If you can PROVE that these are bootlegs, then make a legal case of it and shut them down.  If you can PROVE that these are illegal copies, then perhaps you can make a stand and call us out on our sin here.  Until then, you just come off as a clanging cymbal or resounding gong.

Lol....i forgot that point alldat...nothing is proven.

First, did I not caution at the very beginning of my post, TWICE, that the following was "if I understand it right"? You're right, nothing is proven. That also means you could just as easily be in sin doing what you're doing. Wouldn't you want to know for sure?

As for my download of MP's record, b4l, when I was looking for it, it was not cheaply available at all, at least that I could find. And there was NOTHING illegal about the download since I had the copyright holder's permission to obtain a copy from the person I did. So, nothing hypocritical about it.

And for the record, b4l, yes, I obey the speed limit and I do come to complete stops at stop signs. My wife will back me on that. I got convicted of the sin on those issues some time ago, repented and now obey the traffic laws to the best of my ability. However, even if I didn't, that would only make me a hypocrite; it wouldn't change the sinfulness of stealing music, so I'm not sure why you even brought it up.

I have contacted Retrospect to inquire about this issue. Hopefully, the understanding here was wrong and its all totally legal. In which case, I might order from them myself.

my goodness.... to me shouldnt this issue have been dealt with PRIVATELY in email or msgs before blasting it on the forum?? Just some food for thought... 

It comes across as "Since I'm convicted of this you must be too..."

Yep mr.electric40, and being in public like that will instantly put people on the defensive.

All i tried to do was share something i was excited about, something that others of the same tastes might like, and now i feel like a trouble starter.

Guys, I didn't come in here to blast away at you. When I saw the thread, and I saw what appeared to be pirated copies of stuff being sold and guys here gladly buying it, I saw (and if true, still see) sin. I didn't blast away at you. I exhorted you in a "come-alongside" manner. There are limitations to internet forums and this is one time when it really created a problem. Had we been face to face, and you were able to hear me articulate these concerns in person, I hardly think there would have been conflict, even though you disagree with me.

The Bible is full of directions for us to exhort one another, judge one another and reach out to those brothers in sin and exhort them to stop. That's what I was trying to do. My goodness, I've been around here long enough to know that most of you guys are solid believers living as best you can for Jesus, just like me. That's why I was deliberately not trying to blast away, but rather exhort and say, "let's do this right, together". 

I apologize to those who have been offended by my tone. I stand by what I said, but perhaps there was a better way to articulate it.

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 I am quite happy with them. Remember though, don't expect to hear the same quality as a new release. The original source on a lot of these was probably cassette. To me they sound fine though.

Here's my thing though.. I'd love to buy some of these - but I already have the mp3s at the highest quality I could find, I could burn those to a disc and with my color printer, print up some nice cover art I found off the web.... all for less than a buck.

I'm being a little silly here, but that's my question- are they high quality real looking cds, with good printing on the cd and good inserts ? or are they no better than what I could make here at my house?

Also they had "Trust" by the Brave in their 3 dollar section a while back and like a dummy, I waited too long... alas it is gone.

The paper they use for the covers is a little less rigid than regular, but the printing looks just like a store bought disc. So does the print on the disc itself. Which is a silver disc btw.

Several of these I have in MP3 format, but want a real disc so that if I ever lose the files, I can reload them.    That's my only motive for wanting them.  Some, I have never heard of until this thread and am excited about some new (to me) music with a classic metal feel.

I am betting that with Retrospect that they are not the ones printing these.  I bet they bought these since they are listed by another label's names.  Retrospect operates under the Retrospect and now the Retrocross labels.  I am betting that a vendor approached him with these titles insuring them that these are legit (whether they are or not) and he bought them for resale.  I doubt you will ever really know the truth behind these.

With that said, if he bought them with clear conscience, then that's good enough for me.  I am glad to have these on CD.  I am not going to take the time to try to track down each individual one and see if they were legal or not.  He has a product and I am buying it.  I do not believe I am in sin seeing that I do not know anything about where the rights to this music lies.  If I knew for sure and bought them, then I would feel guilty now for ordering.  Since I do not know, I am assuming that Retrospect has bought what they feel to be real copies and are selling them quite publicly--not at some backwater flea market.  I am buying something with clear conscience until otherwise noted.

With that said, I can't wait to hear some of these babies.  I have a couple more I want to order when i get paid again.

He responded that all of his releases are all legit and legal. I'll take him at his word and my conscience would be clean, too.

OK FoJ, how else did you think he would respond? Did you really think he would say "Hey man, no, they are illegal and I don't have the rights to anything. Thank God you asked sir, I will turn over a new leaf and never offer these again." 
 

Just saying..I think they are fine...but I think asking is a little naive.

Naive? No.

I would agree with b4l.  If the owner was knowingly selling boots, then he would not answer you truthfully.

Follower of Jesus wrote:

He responded that all of his releases are all legit and legal. I'll take him at his word and my conscience would be clean, too.

Good to hear.  
I think one would either take the seller at their would and buy the merch if I thought it was at a fair price.  Or suspect the seller is lying and wash my hands of them.  To go about suggesting that someone is naive or clever is just going to cause further division among us...let's try to be civil about this.  I believe FOJ's initial post wasn't intended to show his faith superior to ours, but just help a brother out in an area where we might be stumbling.  I will admit that the prices coupled with the large selection of rarities had me a little dubious as well. Can we just chalk this one up to experience and move on as friends and brothers in the faith?

Gary are you using a word-correcting text typer ie a cell phone or something ? Cuz your posts recently have been cracking me up with some of the funny words that do not fit in the sentence at all.

I don't have issues with FoJ....I even believe originally that i said i can understand what he was saying.

I don't agree with questioning it out in the open like he did, but hey, like I said earlier, it doesn't really matter.

As for my comment about being naive, sorry if it offended anyone.  I was just trying to convey that if you ask someone if what they sell is legal they are always going to say yes.

And G/F...

You never heard ol expression. .
buy the March


Lol