Forfeit Thee Untrue

This song isn't new, but it's new to me (as is the band) and gosh it's good. Their album "Cremationem Jesus Lacrimam" was a nice surprise today. I know metalcore isn't everyone's cup of tea but with their progressive influences, I thought maybe they might have a wider appeal. Anyone here a fan of Forfeit Thee Untrue? Apparently they're soon going to be heading into the studio to work new material.




And, their "Cradled in Black Arms"....chills.
"This is who I am...how it feels to break away. Let it go. These arms so safe saved me from the grave. Your hand I won't let go"

I was doing fine with it until the hardcore vocals started.  That's when I bolted for the door.  Sorry...the vocal style of this type of music ruins it for me.

alldatndensum wrote:

I was doing fine with it until the hardcore vocals started.  That's when I bolted for the door.  Sorry...the vocal style of this type of music ruins it for me.

This.

Quite a number of times I've listed to a new-to-me group and thought, "This band rocks! Awesome drums, love the guitars!" etc. Only to abruptly flee when the vox kicked in. 

I get it that lots of people do like the growls. Different strokes for different folks. But do *core fans do this with clean vox? (I tend to think that the people saying, "I won't listen to the song if it doesn't growl at me," are pretty few.) If not, why are these talented bands limiting their audience? Is it that hard to find a decent vocalist? With everything you can do in the studio with technology, you wouldn't even need to be a great vocalist. Honest questions.

My music collection holds lots of stuff I don't necessarily listen to (often). I want to be at least somewhat familiar with styles and artists in case I can drop the names as part of outreach. ("You like rap? Check these beats by ….") If one of these is something of a crossover and comes up in a playlist, oh well, only a few minutes until something I like better. But anything hardcore (for more than an isolated phrase or two) is out.

ChristTrekker wrote:

Is it that hard to find a decent vocalist?

Yes.

Vocals are a deal maker or breaker for me.  If the vocals aren't mixed correctly or are off a little, it kills the song.  A lot of good music is ruined by bad vocals whether by accident or on purpose.  Which is one reason I love instrumentals.

"Core" vocals are terrible in my opinion.  They are lazy.  No need to create a new melody line or harmonize.  Just another way for a talentless hack to pretend they are a musician.

Did I say that out loud?

Yes, you did!  For once, you will get int trouble by fans of this style instead of me!

Xid wrote:

ChristTrekker wrote:

Is it that hard to find a decent vocalist?

Yes.

Vocals are a deal maker or breaker for me.  If the vocals aren't mixed correctly or are off a little, it kills the song.  A lot of good music is ruined by bad vocals whether by accident or on purpose.  Which is one reason I love instrumentals.

"Core" vocals are terrible in my opinion.  They are lazy.  No need to create a new melody line or harmonize.  Just another way for a talentless hack to pretend they are a musician.

Did I say that out loud?

I understand your point but would like to say that some of those bands rely on the instruments for the melody. 

I get that a lot of people don’t like “core” vocals, I do. Just putting out a different view.

While I love me my black and death metal, I could never get into the core vocals.  However, when done right, I think they have an ability to convey powerful emotions that you just can't get from other styles.

I have one or two songs on samplers from FTU and for this style, I think they're quite good.

Songs with "Core" vocals are like a hot fudge sundae that smells like doggie poopie.  It looks like a hot fudge sundae.  It tastes like a hot fudge sundae.  It smells like doggie poopie.  I prefer my hot fudge sundae to look, taste and smell like a hot fudge sundae.

I understand that a lot of people like the style but I don't understand why.  To me the vocals are a monotone layer of noise on what could be an exceptional piece of music.

Music is subjective and to each their own.  Not my kind of hot fudge sundae.

I just wish more bands would have singers like Tiny Tim.  There's some killer vocals.

You may have just started yet another nonsensical sub-genre:  Tiny Tim Metal.

kerrick wrote:

While I love me my black and death metal, I could never get into the core vocals.  However, when done right, I think they have an ability to convey powerful emotions that you just can't get from other styles.

I have one or two songs on samplers from FTU and for this style, I think they're quite good.

I've always lumped black/death/core vox together into the "metal guy can't sing" group. Don't see much difference. If you can point me to a sample that shows me otherwise, I'm willing to listen.

Xid wrote:

ChristTrekker wrote:

Is it that hard to find a decent vocalist?

Yes.

Heh. I hear you on the "lazy". I agree it is hard to find a great vocalist. "Good" for Friday night karaoke or Sunday morning worship is one thing, "good" for recording is another, right? I'd rather someone in the first group actually give it a shot, than just "give up".

A good vocalist, just like a good guitarist, bassist or drumist (any instrumentalist for that matter) will pour themselves into the song.  They'll take what they are given and bring it to a different level.  They'll feel the music and feed off of it.

Xid wrote:

Songs with "Core" vocals are like a hot fudge sundae that smells like doggie poopie.  It looks like a hot fudge sundae.  It tastes like a hot fudge sundae.  It smells like doggie poopie.  I prefer my hot fudge sundae to look, taste and smell like a hot fudge sundae.

I understand that a lot of people like the style but I don't understand why.  To me the vocals are a monotone layer of noise on what could be an exceptional piece of music.

Music is subjective and to each their own.  Not my kind of hot fudge sundae.

Ha! Love that description, Xid. Sundae that smells like doggie doo. lol
I'm a clean vocals fan for the most part, but if the band (like Forfeit Thee Untrue) mix it up a bit, then I'm usually in. I think core vocals can inject a certain emotional tone that clean vocals struggle to do (angst is a good one that if sung clean can come across as whiny).

ChristTrekker wrote:

I've always lumped black/death/core vox together into the "metal guy can't sing" group. Don't see much difference. If you can point me to a sample that shows me otherwise, I'm willing to listen.

The best example I can think of, ChristTrekker, is Devin Townsend. Amazing singer. Once of the most versatile voices out there.

Here he is with clean vocals with a smattering of growls...



Clean vocals with grit...



Just gorgeous...



He's also been known to do songs where the balance is more growling with only a smattering of clean vocals. His song "Wrong Side" from his Strapping Young Lad days (an extreme metal band) is a good example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfnr0pxQQI). I'm not a fan of it and find this song disturbing but it illustrates the point. One of the best vocalists out there and he growls too. I'm not saying all vocalists that rely on growling are awesome singers (far from it), just that there are lots who have wonderful clean voices too. Jenny Skulander, Alissa White-Gluz, Rob Flynn, Bruce Fitzhugh...lots.

A couple other bands whose singers who do both clean vocals and growls are Fear Factory and Dark Tranquillity

The Letter Black now uses a lot of screams with the female clean vocals, too.  I don't like it at all as Sarah had such a strong voice without that foolishness.

Quote :

Music is subjective and to each their own.  Not my kind of hot fudge sundae.

this


And I have, and still do, listen to some pretty hard stuff - In the 70s/80s style punk rock genre, hardcore punk, speed metal, thrash.. some of my all time favs. But growling, barking, screaming throughout entire songs has never worked for me.

A friend of mine took me to Facedown Fest a few years back and we seen 10 bands play that day. I can honestly say, I only enjoyed the bands, none of the vocalists. I felt assaulted and yelled at the entire day (yes, it lasted ALLLLL day).

It could be worse. You could sound like a dying cow...

People listen to that ????????????????

That's crap all the way around.  Not even good music without the dying cow.

So I know some people don’t like that (I won’t pretend to care for it but there’s plenty of bands many others like here that I don’t.)

What if the person(s) that wrote and recorded that read our comments? Is that the Jesus we would want him to see?

Just curious.

If somebody vomited on a canvas and called it art would you lie and say that it's creative?

It's weird as Christian music goes, yes, but it's got a certain trance thing going on that I find fascinating.

Xid wrote:

If somebody vomited on a canvas and called it art would you lie and say that it's creative?

Red herring. First, I never said we had to call it art. Second, I never said we had to like it. 

If we represent Jesus, is that the representation you want out there? That if you don’t like something, it’s acceptable to insult it?