Celebrities and Nude Photos

Because,  in the words of Matt Smith, "we call for free will, but reject all consequence".

Staybrite wrote:

ishmael81 wrote:

Okay I left and came back and realized my last post may have been harsh. Please don't take it as such. I'm just baffled at some folks' response to the situation...

I agree that some of the comments may seem (or even be) a little callous.  And those people definitely had their rights violated...not not just the the celebrities, but every person who had their photos stolen from the Apple cloud.  But I didn't see anyone on the web standing up for those common people...what's happened with all of their photos...I'm willing to bet some of them weren't too flattering.

And, I'm sorry, I still think placing compromising photos or documents of yourself on the internet shows incredibly poor judgment....celebrity or not.  Still doesn't excuse the violation of having those documents stolen and exploited....but still a very band idea IMO.

ishmael81 wrote:

All three of these comments imply that these women did something wrong.

Are you suggesting that what they did is perfectly fine?

Yes. What's wrong with having these photos? It's not illegal, nor is it really all that unusual.

BearDad wrote:

Are we being callous? Sure, because victim or not, responsible or not, creating a situation that might someday result in harm to yourself or someone else is stupid. Period.

We shouldn't buy a car, at all, because someone could steal it and kill someone else in a wreck. In fact, we could kill someone in a wreck. And it would be our fault.

We shouldn't have electricity because it could short and cause a house fire. And it would be our fault.

We shouldn't let our kids go to school because a gunman could show up and shoot the place up. And it would be our fault.

We shouldn't ride motorcycles because other drivers are more likely to hit us on one that if we were in a car. And it would be our fault.

Don't get me started on guns.

Why is blaming the victims silly in every other case but this one?

unworthy wrote:

1. I think taking nude pictures of yourself for any other reason than medical is wrong. Is it against the law? no. Of course not. However, that doesn't make it right or justify people who make the choice. You make the choice to take the picture then you also take on the risk of them being exposed. Leave the pictures somewhere they are able to be hacked then you run the risk even more. I would think you would treat them as you would any sensitive information.. not having them on your phone or in the cloud.

2. I never said they weren't victims or that it was right that they were hacked or exposed. I think their privacy was violated and I don't think that was "good" either. That doesn't make them innocent in the affair, though.

3. There is a world of difference between using a credit card (which cannot be used "privately" and the information must be shared for it to be approved/etc) and taking pictures of yourself naked and leaving them where they can be hacked. The comment regarding rape and clothing, I don't see how that has anything to do with it.

just my opinion.

1. You're right - this is your opinion. If someone has pictures of their kids on a website or Facebook, any pedophile could right-click and save those pictures, right? So if one gets busted with their photo, they share responsibility in that crime, right?

2. Why aren't they innocent?

3. There is no difference in the card and the pictures. People use the card, believing it's secure. These folks saved pictures, also believing they were safe. Using a card at any store will leave your card number in their system where it can be hacked. The clothing comment was another example fo blaming the victim for a crime.

Let me ask a question, since I'm the only freakin' weirdo who feels the way I do.

If I broke into one of your homes and stole your CD collection, would you agree that you are partially responsible for that crime, since we discuss our music here on this board an some of you have even talked about how many discs you have in your collection?

Well that's a little different, because my CD collection is in my home and it is nothing potentially harmful or embarrassing.  If after discussing my music you chose to find out where I live so you can break in and steal it, then no I do not share any responsibility.  Now if we were discussing something potentially embarrassing or harmful, and if I stored it somewhere other than in the safety of my home, it might be a different story. That is the point here ... I have nothing in my house that will embarrass me or have the potential to ruin my life.  I have enough common sense to not do or own such things!

You gave us a scenario, so let me give you one:

Two women are walking down the street, one dressed in comfortable, unrevealing clothes, while the other is wearing form-fitting "yoga pants" with the word "cutie" printed across her butt, and a tight fitting shirt that stops above her naval and shows a lot of cleavage. Which of the two women is most likely to be noticed?  Which one is more likely to be the recipient of cat-calls and whistles?  If a rapist sees them, or even just some guy without the benefit of morality and decency to prevent him from acting on his urges, which woman will he most likely target?  (This, by the way, is why I do NOT allow my daughters to wear clothing that attracts the male eye any more than is unavoidable.)

If you put sugar on a plate and set it in the woods it is going to attract pests. It's not your fault the pests are attracted to it, as that is their nature. But you are the one that put it there in the first place, so while there is no blame for the end result there is still responsibility. If these ladies had an ounce of decency and responsibility, and didn't do stupid, vane things like taking nude pictures of themselves, then it is far less likely that this would have happened to them.  I say less likely because it is possible that some creep with Photoshop will take a perfectly legitimate picture of a celebrity, doctor it up to look like he or she is nude, and reveal it to the public.  But that's a different scenario entirely.

I would love to hear Jennifer Lawrence say, "While I am not to blame for the crime, and I am horrified that it happened, I do share some responsibility for having the pictures in the first place and am therefore even more horrified by my lack of common sense."  But she won't.

ishmael81 wrote:

Why is blaming the victims silly in every other case but this one?

I don't think it is.

You tell a child not to touch the stove because it is still hot even after you turned it off, and he touches the stove and get's his finger hurt.  He is victim of pain....but it is his fault.

There is a person at work who is told not to use the internet for personal business.  He does it once to send an e-mail to his wife and let her know he is stuck working late, and later he is fired.  He is victim of what most would see as "unfair management decisions"....but it's still his fault.

Here is an ever better example.  You own a nice car.  You leave the keys in it, and leave it unlocked.  Someone steals your car.  Your very poor judgment made you much more susceptible to being victimized.  People will shake their heads in amazement at your lack of discernment, others will openly mock you as stupid...and many will hope that you learned from the experience.

ishmael81 wrote:

Staybrite wrote:

ishmael81 wrote:

All three of these comments imply that these women did something wrong.

Are you suggesting that what they did is perfectly fine?

Yes. What's wrong with having these photos? It's not illegal, nor is it really all that unusual.

I'm not necessarily convinced that what they did was wrong or right, I just wanted to know if you were convicted one way or the other.
Depending on the "reason" for why they did it, I can certainly see that taking naked pictures of yourself could certainly be morally wrong.

However, I would completely agree with others who have voiced that it was not at all a smart thing to post compromising pictures of yourself on the internet.  Much like it is an incredibly bad idea to drive your car when it is out of oil.  In this day and given our ridiculous hunger to degrade people publicly (especially public people) most would think that most anybody over the age of 16 would understand that.  Again, it still doesn't excuse the thief, but it is the world we live in.

BearDad wrote:

Well that's a little different, because my CD collection is in my home and it is nothing potentially harmful or embarrassing.  If after discussing my music you chose to find out where I live so you can break in and steal it, then no I do not share any responsibility.  Now if we were discussing something potentially embarrassing or harmful, and if I stored it somewhere other than in the safety of my home, it might be a different story. That is the point here ... I have nothing in my house that will embarrass me or have the potential to ruin my life.  I have enough common sense to not do or own such things!

You gave us a scenario, so let me give you one:

Two women are walking down the street, one dressed in comfortable, unrevealing clothes, while the other is wearing form-fitting "yoga pants" with the word "cutie" printed across her butt, and a tight fitting shirt that stops above her naval and shows a lot of cleavage. Which of the two women is most likely to be noticed?  Which one is more likely to be the recipient of cat-calls and whistles?  If a rapist sees them, or even just some guy without the benefit of morality and decency to prevent him from acting on his urges, which woman will he most likely target?  (This, by the way, is why I do NOT allow my daughters to wear clothing that attracts the male eye any more than is unavoidable.)

Regardless of where you store it, it can be stolen. As I've stated, people think the cloud storage is safe.

So let's look at this for a second. I don't want to be "that guy" but I guess I will.

Pretend your daughter goes to prom. We've all seen prom dresses, right? Beautiful. She wears a tasteful dress, fixes her hair and wears pretty makeup. She goes with a boy and at the end of the night, he feels he should be "paid back" for the money it costs to rent his tux and borrow his dad's car. He rapes her.

Will you blame your daughter at all? Of course not! But she still was the one who fixed herself up and wore the pretty dress, right?

Let me ask you a frank question. Do you know any rape victims? I have 2 friends who are, and I cannot imagine anyone blaming them at all for being involved in that, regardless of their apparel at the time.

To swing around full circle here -

Wouldn't you equate having naked pictures of yourself stolen and put on the internet to being violated in a very similiar manner?

I guess ultimatley, regardless of how wise or unwise, or how much we disagree with what they did, they are victims and I simply can't see how blaming them makes any sense.

Staybrite wrote:

ishmael81 wrote:

Why is blaming the victims silly in every other case but this one?

I don't think it is.

You tell a child not to touch the stove because it is still hot even after you turned it off, and he touches the stove and get's his finger hurt.  He is victim of pain....but it is his fault.

There is a person at work who is told not to use the internet for personal business.  He does it once to send an e-mail to his wife and let her know he is stuck working late, and later he is fired.  He is victim of what most would see as "unfair management decisions"....but it's still his fault.

Here is an ever better example.  You own a nice car.  You leave the keys in it, and leave it unlocked.  Someone steals your car.  Your very poor judgment made you much more susceptible to being victimized.  People will shake their heads in amazement at your lack of discernment, others will openly mock you as stupid...and many will hope that you learned from the experience.

Again, people believe that cloud storage is a safe place to keep your digital media. Leaving your car keys does not equate to anything that anyone would believe to be safe.

ishmael81 wrote:

Staybrite wrote:

ishmael81 wrote:

Why is blaming the victims silly in every other case but this one?

I don't think it is.

You tell a child not to touch the stove because it is still hot even after you turned it off, and he touches the stove and get's his finger hurt.  He is victim of pain....but it is his fault.

There is a person at work who is told not to use the internet for personal business.  He does it once to send an e-mail to his wife and let her know he is stuck working late, and later he is fired.  He is victim of what most would see as "unfair management decisions"....but it's still his fault.

Here is an ever better example.  You own a nice car.  You leave the keys in it, and leave it unlocked.  Someone steals your car.  Your very poor judgment made you much more susceptible to being victimized.  People will shake their heads in amazement at your lack of discernment, others will openly mock you as stupid...and many will hope that you learned from the experience.

Again, people believe that cloud storage is a safe place to keep your digital media. Leaving your car keys does not equate to anything that anyone would believe to be safe.

I didn't know there was a general consensus that people typically thought cloud storage was safe.  Personally I never would have thought it was "extrememly safe" myself.  But I'm willing to entertain the notion that I could be wrong.

ishmael81 wrote:

Stop that, you'll break something!  Like your head 
Don't feel too frustrated brother.  I respect your opinion, and I even agree with part of what you are getting at.  You have just fallen in with a cynical bunch this time.  For every person debating against you there are probably 3 or 4 reading your posts and agreeing with you...but they just don't want to jump in the pool for fear of drifting into the frenzy.

ishmael81 wrote:

BearDad wrote:

Well that's a little different, because my CD collection is in my home and it is nothing potentially harmful or embarrassing.  If after discussing my music you chose to find out where I live so you can break in and steal it, then no I do not share any responsibility.  Now if we were discussing something potentially embarrassing or harmful, and if I stored it somewhere other than in the safety of my home, it might be a different story. That is the point here ... I have nothing in my house that will embarrass me or have the potential to ruin my life.  I have enough common sense to not do or own such things!

You gave us a scenario, so let me give you one:

Two women are walking down the street, one dressed in comfortable, unrevealing clothes, while the other is wearing form-fitting "yoga pants" with the word "cutie" printed across her butt, and a tight fitting shirt that stops above her naval and shows a lot of cleavage. Which of the two women is most likely to be noticed?  Which one is more likely to be the recipient of cat-calls and whistles?  If a rapist sees them, or even just some guy without the benefit of morality and decency to prevent him from acting on his urges, which woman will he most likely target?  (This, by the way, is why I do NOT allow my daughters to wear clothing that attracts the male eye any more than is unavoidable.)

Regardless of where you store it, it can be stolen. As I've stated, people think the cloud storage is safe.

So let's look at this for a second. I don't want to be "that guy" but I guess I will.

Pretend your daughter goes to prom. We've all seen prom dresses, right? Beautiful. She wears a tasteful dress, fixes her hair and wears pretty makeup. She goes with a boy and at the end of the night, he feels he should be "paid back" for the money it costs to rent his tux and borrow his dad's car. He rapes her.

Will you blame your daughter at all? Of course not! But she still was the one who fixed herself up and wore the pretty dress, right?

Let me ask you a frank question. Do you know any rape victims? I have 2 friends who are, and I cannot imagine anyone blaming them at all for being involved in that, regardless of their apparel at the time.

To swing around full circle here -

Wouldn't you equate having naked pictures of yourself stolen and put on the internet to being violated in a very similiar manner?

I guess ultimatley, regardless of how wise or unwise, or how much we disagree with what they did, they are victims and I simply can't see how blaming them makes any sense.

Again, you completely missed my point. Your example of the girl in the prom dress did everything right and the guy that raped her was in the wrong; there is a difference between dressing tastefully and wearing clothes that say "come and get me boys"! If your prom girl had been wearing a sheer and skimpy dress it would be a different story; a practical woman realizes that those kinds of clothes send one message. Would she ultimately be to blame for the guy's decision to rape her? Of course not, but she had a responsibility to avoid that situation by not wearing clothes that state she wanted sex. Equally responsible are her parents/guardians for allowing her to go to the prom that way, as they are expected to have common sense where she does not.

And for the last time, nobody is blaming them!!! We are just stating that they were being irresponsible and have been made victims because of it. 

If you want to avoid being a victim, don't place yourself in a position to become one. Does that guarantee you are safe? No, but your odds increase exponentially.

[ boy am I ever sorry I started this thread! ]

Staybrite wrote:

ishmael81 wrote:

Staybrite wrote:

ishmael81 wrote:

Why is blaming the victims silly in every other case but this one?

I don't think it is.

You tell a child not to touch the stove because it is still hot even after you turned it off, and he touches the stove and get's his finger hurt.  He is victim of pain....but it is his fault.

There is a person at work who is told not to use the internet for personal business.  He does it once to send an e-mail to his wife and let her know he is stuck working late, and later he is fired.  He is victim of what most would see as "unfair management decisions"....but it's still his fault.

Here is an ever better example.  You own a nice car.  You leave the keys in it, and leave it unlocked.  Someone steals your car.  Your very poor judgment made you much more susceptible to being victimized.  People will shake their heads in amazement at your lack of discernment, others will openly mock you as stupid...and many will hope that you learned from the experience.

Again, people believe that cloud storage is a safe place to keep your digital media. Leaving your car keys does not equate to anything that anyone would believe to be safe.

I didn't know there was a general consensus that people typically thought cloud storage was safe.  Personally I never would have thought it was "extrememly safe" myself.  But I'm willing to entertain the notion that I could be wrong.

I always did... lol

Staybrite wrote:

ishmael81 wrote:

Stop that, you'll break something!  Like your head 
Don't feel too frustrated brother.  I respect your opinion, and I even agree with part of what you are getting at.  You have just fallen in with a cynical bunch this time.  For every person debating against you there are probably 3 or 4 reading your posts and agreeing with you...but they just don't want to jump in the pool for fear of drifting into the frenzy.

I hear ya. I'm just concerned that I'm not expressing what I mean exactly...

BearDad wrote:

ishmael81 wrote:

BearDad wrote:

Well that's a little different, because my CD collection is in my home and it is nothing potentially harmful or embarrassing.  If after discussing my music you chose to find out where I live so you can break in and steal it, then no I do not share any responsibility.  Now if we were discussing something potentially embarrassing or harmful, and if I stored it somewhere other than in the safety of my home, it might be a different story. That is the point here ... I have nothing in my house that will embarrass me or have the potential to ruin my life.  I have enough common sense to not do or own such things!

You gave us a scenario, so let me give you one:

Two women are walking down the street, one dressed in comfortable, unrevealing clothes, while the other is wearing form-fitting "yoga pants" with the word "cutie" printed across her butt, and a tight fitting shirt that stops above her naval and shows a lot of cleavage. Which of the two women is most likely to be noticed?  Which one is more likely to be the recipient of cat-calls and whistles?  If a rapist sees them, or even just some guy without the benefit of morality and decency to prevent him from acting on his urges, which woman will he most likely target?  (This, by the way, is why I do NOT allow my daughters to wear clothing that attracts the male eye any more than is unavoidable.)

Regardless of where you store it, it can be stolen. As I've stated, people think the cloud storage is safe.

So let's look at this for a second. I don't want to be "that guy" but I guess I will.

Pretend your daughter goes to prom. We've all seen prom dresses, right? Beautiful. She wears a tasteful dress, fixes her hair and wears pretty makeup. She goes with a boy and at the end of the night, he feels he should be "paid back" for the money it costs to rent his tux and borrow his dad's car. He rapes her.

Will you blame your daughter at all? Of course not! But she still was the one who fixed herself up and wore the pretty dress, right?

Let me ask you a frank question. Do you know any rape victims? I have 2 friends who are, and I cannot imagine anyone blaming them at all for being involved in that, regardless of their apparel at the time.

To swing around full circle here -

Wouldn't you equate having naked pictures of yourself stolen and put on the internet to being violated in a very similiar manner?

I guess ultimatley, regardless of how wise or unwise, or how much we disagree with what they did, they are victims and I simply can't see how blaming them makes any sense.

Again, you completely missed my point. Your example of the girl in the prom dress did everything right and the guy that raped her was in the wrong; there is a difference between dressing tastefully and wearing clothes that say "come and get me boys"! If your prom girl had been wearing a sheer and skimpy dress it would be a different story; a practical woman realizes that those kinds of clothes send one message. Would she ultimately be to blame for the guy's decision to rape her? Of course not, but she had a responsibility to avoid that situation by not wearing clothes that state she wanted sex. Equally responsible are her parents/guardians for allowing her to go to the prom that way, as they are expected to have common sense where she does not.

And for the last time, nobody is blaming them!!! We are just stating that they were being irresponsible and have been made victims because of it. 

If you want to avoid being a victim, don't place yourself in a position to become one. Does that guarantee you are safe? No, but your odds increase exponentially.

[ boy am I ever sorry I started this thread! ]

And there's the crux of the matter. Why do certain clothes invite sex? And why would having naked pictures in a (supposedly) safe private storage place on the net invite hacking?

Why do certain clothes invite sex?  Ask people who dress provocatively in order to attract a one night stand or work in the exotic dancing industry.  They know that clothing draws the eyes.  If everything is displayed correctly, we want it.  That's the same principle behind advertising.  If you can make it look desirable, then we'll buy it.  Clothing is just the window dressing for sex.

Naked pictures invite hacking because naked pictures sell.  That's why the internet is over 2/3 porn.  Also, celebrity itself invites hacking.  Combine the two and you have a recipe for disaster.  If you want to be truthful, to have these photos of yourself if you are famous is A) reckless at the least, B) stupid at the most, or C) well planned publicity if you can pull off the crying for the cameras in public.  I am sure that this most recent round of female celebs have some of all three of those categories among them.

I'm one of those who've been reading silently without commenting, cuz this thread is one of those I usually avoid (Like George MacFly: "I can't handle confrontation"   JK )

I'm in agreement with all parties here. While it is a very foolish thing to choose cloud storage for anything with personal and private, sensitive documents or photos... I'm not convinced celebrities are using the cloud in hopes that they'll be hacked, and though I think they're fools for using the cloud to store nudies, they're still victims of hacking.
Every other online businesses only allow for a set number of password entry tries, ie after 3 attempts, it locks you out. Apple allows for endless password attempts making phishing and other programs easy to use. If I know your sign-on, I can use a program to discover your password and bingo, I'm in. Some of the fault lies with Apple and their piss-poor password protection.

Three to blame:
1. Hackers doing illegal hacking
2. Apple with a weak password system 
3. The celebrities not being careful with sensitive personal property

I don't think this should be compared to other scenarios as it's unique in it's content, where other hacks and attacks are unique to their situation. It is what it is - people take pix and video of them and their spouse all the time... but the smart ones store them on encrypted media that they keep in their own house, and if you're a celebrity, put that encrypted media in a locked safe.

The statements about just not doing it at all cuz "it's stupid" are invalid.
With a valid comparison, it's like telling a teenager they can't and won't fool around, then walking away thinking that now they're safe cuz you told them not to and why they shouldn't. To ensure making things more safe, tell the teenager to wait until marriage, BUT if they don't wait, then they should do "such and such" to protect themselves. That's double security. No, you don't want your teen fooling around, but simply telling them not to, is like trusting the cloud to store sensitive things. Extra "protection" is essential.

What if celebrities are secretly all nudists? Conspiracy theory!