The Civil War has begun

Seems the whole gay marriage discussions have become a runaway train.

From my POV which is Biblical, I have upset all the "tolerants" around me in my life. I guess this is when the passage is true that because of the Bible, family will be against family and friends against friends.

Thing is, I tell someone I believe what I believe not cuz it's what I made up, but cuz it's God's standard and I stand behind the Bible as God's Word - PERIOD. I have spoken in as much love as I'm capable, but I will not budge on the Word...

I see bad times ahead as I continue to stand firm on what I believe. I'm sure this is probably the case for a few others here as well.

I agree... very much the case for me and my wife as well. We have more than a few friends and family members unhappy with us.

It breaks my heart, cuz those who are strong supporters of gay marriage happen to be "free-thinking" family and friends.

As I said, I don't know what the future holds with this "Civil War", but 2 things I refuse to budge on: my beliefs and my love for my family.

I'm tired of seeing the red equal signs all across Facebook… it's not because of their message, necessarily, more than their ubiquity.

This issue definitely shows just how divided as a nation we truly are. Racism still exists. Animosity between the ultra rich and the entitlement recipients exists. People of the Christian faith are looked down upon by those without our beliefs as our nation becomes even more pluralistic. The liberals are against the conservatives. We are a divided people in many ways.

I think another "civil war" is brewing, but I don't think it is the homosexual agenda that is going to push it over the edge.

I think we are headed for a collapse.. unfortunately.

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this issue definitely shows just how divided as a nation we truly are.
Racism still exists. Animosity between the ultra rich and the
entitlement recipients exists. People of the Christian faith are looked
down upon by those without our beliefs as our nation becomes even more
pluralistic. The liberals are against the conservatives. We are a
divided people in many ways

I agree and would add that the churches and political parties are even divided within themselves and imploding into war. I think we may have a chance at a independent getting into the white house eventually. I would very likely vote for an independent.
As for the gay issue I really don't care how they rule on it. On one side I do believe that the constitution guarantees equal rights to all people regardless of religion or sexual preference and I do not think the government should legislate morality and that there should be a separation of church and state....at the same time I think maybe this should be an issue decided by each state by a vote of the people. States rights is the way many issues should be handled. If you don't like the laws of one state then move to one that believes like you do. That is the beauty of the states rights and I feel like that is what the forefathers had in mind.

marriage is different. No such thing as "independent states" when it comes to issues like that because each state has to recognize the marriage license of all 50.. in other words, legal in one.. legal in all.

but its already legal in some state while other states won't recognize it. What does the constitution say though? Actually it says equal rights for all. That is the issue really....what the constitution really says. Thats why I have said before that in alot of ways the constitution and the christian religion practiced by many does not line up. If we are going to run things from a judeo christian point of view what about divorce, gossip, fornication, etc....see the point? I thank God our constitution is written as it is...equal rights for all regardless of religion or anything else.

The inevitable dominoes begin: Once gay marriage is recognized, then polygamists will be hot on their tail (no pun there), then underage consent, then incest, etc.

Laws govern morality. However, once a group of homosexuals convince enough straights of their persecution, several other people practicing aberrant lifestyles will arise and individual preferences will one by one be seen as ok. Laws will be determined based on peoples feelings of what they see as right and they will be protected against hate-crimes - such as Christians who teach against these lifestyles. We will be imprisoned and/or fined.

I think your blowing things out of proportion.
It appears to me that the supreme court will rule that the federal government should stay out of this and will strike the federal laws down but will rule that it is a state issue and that each state should decide for themselves. I think californias prop 8 will stand since it was passed by a vote of the people...
since it has been brought up what does the bible tell us will happen in the end days? Why are you surprised about the way its going? Its in the book. I say rejoice because the end is near.

I'm just gonna play devil's advocate here, I guess… Besides God's word that it is wrong, what reason is there to deny homosexual marriage? Plus, per God's word, why is it wrong - just because He said so, or what?

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Plus, per God's word, why is it wrong - just because He said so, or what?

Shouldn't that be enough?

Ok...someone answer this ( and quit skirting the question)..

Should christians get special rights in the usa and should we change the constitution to reflect that?

Should we also make laws banning fornication, adultry, gossip, and anything antiChristian?

I think the gay issue goes way beyond being pro or anti gay. Its about how much should the government be in our lives. By the way..I am not progay..actually I could care less either way and refuse to cast stones.

"Free thinking" is not the truth of God.

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"Free thinking" is not the truth of God.

We might have to agree to disagree. We all have our opinion and interpretation of what Gods truth is.
In your view this would be Gods truth:
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with mennor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
And this is truth however I think Paul is talking about unbelievers here who have not given their lives to Christ. He is encouraging those who are saved to stop doing these things and live by the spirit....but to those who would say I have a wrong interpretation I ask why are you not trying to create laws against Idolaters, adulterers, greed, drunkards, slanders, swindlers or any of the other laws of God?
I call Gods truth this...Those who live by the law are cursed. The law is a ministry of death. We are saved by faith alone...nothing else needed. Again I am not pro Gay. I do think its wrong and not natural. I do think there is an earthly penalty for it. I do not think its any more of a sin than any other sin and I do not believe it will keep you out of heaven.. but I do support our constitution. I do believe Jesus expects us to follow the law of the land even if the laws are made by unbelievers. He told the Jews of his time to obey the Romans. Never did he attack the Romans or their law...but he did attack the church and its leaders.
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Let me ask this simple question...lets see if anyone can answer it....

Why would you expect a non Christian Government with a non Christian constitution and judges to care what Gods truth is? Why would they rule in Gods favor instead of their own Governments favor. Anyone have an answer for this?

alldatndensum wrote:

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Plus, per God's word, why is it wrong - just because He said so, or what?

Shouldn't that be enough?

Not if one doesn't believe the Bible, no. (Of course I do, but I'm curious to know if there are points besides God's word against homosexual marriage.)

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

Laws govern morality.

I disagree. Morality governs morality. People do what they want regardless of the laws - that's why we have criminals.

I guess you'll never vote for Ron Paul, huh ?

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I guess you'll never vote for Ron Paul, huh ?

I voted for Ron Paul

And I hear that Jesse Ventura is running as an independent for president in the next election and I will vote for him. I agreed with everything he said in his book.

I voted for Ron too. Don't know much about The Body.

ishmael81 wrote:

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

Laws govern morality.

I disagree. Morality governs morality. People do what they want regardless of the laws - that's why we have criminals.

You've got a point !

brokentulsa wrote:

I do not think its any more of a sin than any other sin and I do not believe it will keep you out of heaven..

Any sin can keep you from heaven whether you believe you are a Christian or not. What matters is what you're doing about that sin. Are you trying to fight it and become more like Christ? Or is it no big deal? If you've had your heart changed it will be the latter because the Holy Spirit will convict you. I don't get so-called gay Christians that think their lifestyle is perfectly fine with God.

As to your question, if I was a judge on USSC, I'd have to vote to allow gay marriage because I don't know of any LEGAL reason not to (plenty of moral and social issues). I also believe it would open up more cans of worms. I believe no states have sodomy laws anymore (at least that are enforced), but other similar laws (bestiality?) may still exist and those would then fall. Polygamists would also want equal rights. I'd also vote to make abortion illegal. May as well give everyone the rights they deserve.

So we as Christians should throw up our hands and let the "world", state, country have what they want ?
I'm not being facetious, I genuinely wonder what our part as believers should play in the laws of the land.
No, we cannot force our beliefs upon society, but if we say and do nothing, then we are couching our voice. However, Jesus never made a fuss about Rome's laws (He said give Caesar what's his, and give God what's His), rather Jesus was more concerned about the individual person - He spoke to people about heart changes, not legal changes.
On the other side of Caesar's coin, if we remain silent, laws will be created that will ultimately make Christian's criminals (as we will not agree with these laws, and will find ourselves "standing" in the midst of the majority "bowing" to the law)

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Any sin can keep you from heaven whether you believe you are a Christian or not.

we will have to agree to disagree. All sin past, present and future has been forgiven. People go to hell because they fail to accept Christ as their Savior..not because of their sin.

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If you've had your heart changed it will be the latter because the Holy Spirit will convict you

No where in scripture does it say that the Holy Spirit convicts the believer. All conviction and condemnation heaped on the believer comes from satan. The Holy spirit is our protector, comforter and teacher...not our conscience.
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if we remain silent, laws will be created that will ultimately make
Christian's criminals (as we will not agree with these laws, and will
find ourselves "standing" in the midst of the majority "bowing" to the
law)

scripture says we are already hated by the world. The world already sees us as criminals.We as Christians are told that as we live our lives in faith we will be persecuted, jailed, beaten, torcher'd and some will be killed and murdered...but those who persevere to the end will be saved. We are not citizens of this world but of Gods kingdom. We are told to rejoice when we are treated bad because of our faith in Christ.
Scripture also tells us to live quiet lives and mind our own business and not to cast stones but to turn the other cheek.Vote for whoever you want but don't be surprised when the world gets its way. Revelation describes what will happen in the end...The end is at hand and God has given us a front row seat. What an awesome time to live in. Be happy and walk by the spirit and know that the Lord will never leave or forsake you.