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 Alice

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Guilty/Forgiven

Guilty/Forgiven


Number of posts : 9927
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PostSubject: Alice   Alice I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 22, 2007 10:35 am

Controversy time...

Alice Cooper.
I've read all the info regarding his change of heart, receiving Christ as his Savior (which would constitute repentance according to Scripture) and how his trilogy albums represent.
I obtained these 3 albums and have recently finished listening to them. Musically, they are an A+, exceeding much of Christian music out there now (obviously, he's a legend with years of experience and talent) (I think Christian bands today would do well to listen to the clarity and awesome guitar solos and take some notes).

However, lyrically, though not "bad", is not much different than the records he put out back in the day. Shocking, somewhat dark, theatrical lyrics that speak of life's darker side, death, corruption, a little humor, and women bleeding.
Don't get me wrong, mine is not to judge him and where he stands with God... my concern is, are we Christians duped into thinking these albums represent Alice's change, or that they could be considered Christian music... or music made by a Christian ? I know you don't have to have Jesus lyrics in every song just because you're a Christian (as most of todays Christian music is demonstrating).... but Alice music then and Alice music now really isn't any different. I don't expect him to drop the "Alice" name and release a bunch of spirituals under the name Vincent Furnier, but lyrically I just don't feel like Alice fits into my Christian music collection. Nor do I feel confident recommending Alice to others as a believer.
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rageofcr
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PostSubject: Re: Alice   Alice I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 22, 2007 2:15 pm

I am not entirely sure which cd's you have. Do you have "The Last Temptation" by Alice? I think I might consider that one a Christian album. "Brutal Planet" likewise has some very strong lyrics that show that Christ is the way and that sin is not the way.
However, where Alice personally lost me was not so much with his dark themes but his scathing indictment and judgment of Elvis Presley in the song "Disgraceland" (from the Dragontown cd). The song is not "funny" and Alice doesn't know the heart of Elvis. It's my opinion that although Elvis suffered greatly under the chains of sin during his brief life he deeply loved the Lord and trusted Him as his Saviour. For Alice to turn around and make fun of his weight and eating habits and insinuate the man is in hell is just going one step too far (for me personally). Now, that is just one (of more than a few) of my personal complaints about Alice's new music.
I know you said you wouldn't expect him to drop the name but if there is any truth whatsoever in how they originally came up with that name I would certainly not want to keep it as a Christian. It was stated in early AC interviews that the name was "given" to the band by a spirit through a Oiuja board. There are TONS of things I could say that annoy me about Alice but I do believe he is a Christian.
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Staybrite

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PostSubject: Re: Alice   Alice I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 22, 2007 2:46 pm

From what I have read, I think Alice's stance is that he is a Christian, but he is not an evangelical musician. I have heard him say that the messages in his songs are more along the line of a "warning" rather than calling people to accept Christ. His music is supposed to be dark with shocking lyrics, that is the image of Alice Cooper the artist.

I have owned all three of those "Christian" albums, and didn't find anything that was spiritually uplifting about any of them (of course I have never been much of an Alice Cooper fan, and have since traded them all). Personally I think I would put him in the "clean lyrics" category of music, and not expect much in the way of praise to our Lord directly in his songs.

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alldatndensum
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alldatndensum


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PostSubject: Re: Alice   Alice I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 22, 2007 5:56 pm

I've also had all three of those Alice CDs. I have to agree with Staybrite that there was little that I found uplifting. So, I traded them away on LaLa where I got them to start with.

Christian band or Christians in a band? I miss the days when you could tell more about the stance of an artist from what they had to say! I do think that there are ways to broaden the message so that non-church folks can listen, but I think a lot of artists cross over into the secular realm so much that they offer nothing of substance to anyone.

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Guilty/Forgiven

Guilty/Forgiven


Number of posts : 9927
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PostSubject: Re: Alice   Alice I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 22, 2007 9:02 pm

Quote :
I am not entirely sure which cd's you have
The Last Temptation
Brutal Planet
Dragontown

I was told these were a trilogy representing his newfound faith in Christ.

While I don't doubt a change in his personal life, I do not see much of a difference from the records i use to listen to in the 80s by Alice. I agree he has a "couple" songs that hint at a faith in Christ and an opposition to Satan, but I also see many other songs that, if I were Alice and born-again, I would definitely have re-written.

Also,
Quote :


the name was "given" to the band by a spirit through a Oiuja board

if this is a fact, then once again, if I were Alice and a believer now, I would tactfully change the name as I would not want to have anything to do with inspiration from the demonic realm.
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rageofcr
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PostSubject: Re: Alice   Alice I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 22, 2007 10:04 pm

I agree with what you guys have said about The Coop.

The "trilogy" was supposed to be "Brutal Planet", "DragonTown" and then a third disc that never got made (he decided to go back even more into that 70's persona on his last two titles "Eyes Of Alice Cooper" and "Dirty Diamonds"). "The Last Temptation" technically is not part of the trilogy. Recorded in 1994 it was a stand alone album created prior to the trilogy idea. I would like to say that "The Last Temptation" is kinda evangelical in a way. If you read the lyrics to songs like "Cleansed By Fire" it seems pretty bold and it closes a storyline of a kid who was being enticed by satan to sell his soul.

Here are the ending lyrics:

"What about dark
What about light
What about wrong
What about right
What about death
What about sin
What about the web you're trying to spin
What about truth
What about life
What about glory
What about Christ
What about peace
What about love
What about faith in God above
What about war
What about hell
What if I stumble
What if I fell
What about blood
What about greed
And all of these things you're offering me
Yeah, what about me, little me
You lose and I win
You couldn't suck me in
It's over, you have no power
You're lost
And I'm found
And I'm Heaven bound
Go back to where you belong
To where you fell
Go to hell"


That was back in 1994 though.
It seems like Alice is going more and more secular these days (because he did seem to get pretty bold about his faith and even some lyrics there for a while). He hosts a nationally syndicated secular radio show (called Nights With Alice Cooper) that plays songs that even I wouldn't listen to and I am pretty open about what I listen to lyrically. He also has a very arrogant attitude on his radio show.
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Fundy

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PostSubject: Re: Alice   Alice I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2007 3:01 am

Before I became a Christian, back in 1994 I had a few AC albums, including Hey Stoopid, Trash and The Last Temptation. When I became a Christian I got rid of them all (including The Last Temptation). To an outsider who didn't know, it didn't seem from the lyrics to be very positive or christian at all.

Since finding out that he is a christian I now have The Last Temptation, Brutal Planet, Dragontown and Eyes. And upon close examination I can now see the christian element in the first three, but it's not all that clear. I would put his albums in the "clean lyrics, with a slight hint of christianity" column!

As for Disgraceland, I always took that to be tongue in cheek and not meant to be serious at all, although I think there was a side issue in that you can get lots of material stuff on earth, but that means nothing when you get to the afterlife.

Fundy

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PostSubject: Re: Alice   Alice I_icon_minitime

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