Todd Bentley

I haven't heard much about him, but I think he's coming over to the UK pretty soon, 'cause people are up in arms about his ministry. I keep hearing "He's demonic" "he's from the pit of hell" "he can't say that" etc.

Now I think, by the sound of it that there's something worrying about what he's doing, but I get a little tired of the way some christians keep going on about how bad this man, or that man (whoever it may be) is.

I dunno, I think the outside world just looks at the 'church' and says "what a mess it's in". I may be wrong, but to my mind we should just leave well alone the things we don't agree with and work on loving one another, and proclaiming what we believe is right, rather than what other people believe is wrong. I was at church on Tuesday night and an older lady came up to me (she'd just been in hospital with a serious illness (very serious)) and said "Have you seen this man, it's awful. We need to object. We need to voice our opinions and tell people that he is wrong." And there's me thinking I don't really think that's right. I think we should just love one another and preach what we believe is right, but leave him alone.

Outside the church they see it as a civil war.

I guess I'm just tired of the negativity.

What do others think?

Fundy

Maybe this should go in the Biblical forum. I wasn't sure as it's not about the Bible but about a person.............

Sorry, I couldn't make up my mind!

Fundy

I've never even heard of the man. What is his so-called heresy?

Take a look at this video of him discussing some of his "faith healing". Speaks volumes for what he is doing.

Todd Bently Raging Revival

Instead of staging protests over this type of well.....entertainment (for lack of a better word), we should be sharing the gospel with the people lost enough to follow him.

I agree, Staybrite. I feel that we should share the true Gospel, rather than point the finger at people we disagree with.

Just my opinion

Fundy

So he's the one behind the "revival" in Lakeland(?), FL?

I don't know that much about the man, but my boss watches his show regularly and she likes him. I've heard a few things that might be a cause for concern, but I wonder how many of his detractors have followed Matt 18 and actually gone to him?

Bottom line is if someone is preaching Jesus (which TB is), I think we should keep the criticism on a constructive level. Most times, it's not.

topshot rhit wrote:

So he's the one behind the "revival" in Lakeland(?), FL?

That's the guy.

The revival part doesn't disturb me at all really. It is all the fake faith-healings he is performing. If he truly has the gift of healing why doesn't he go to St Judes and heal all those sick and injured children?

Kind of reminds me of that movie "Leap of Faith" with Steve Martin & Deborah Winger.

Staybrite wrote:

The revival part doesn't disturb me at all really. It is all the fake faith-healings he is performing.

They are all fake? How do you know that?

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If he truly has the gift of healing why doesn't he go to St Judes and heal all those sick and injured children?

Why doesn't Jesus do that?

All I know about the man is what I have read at the CMR. So, who am I to judge?

Tall Tyrion wrote:

Staybrite wrote:

The revival part doesn't disturb me at all really. It is all the fake faith-healings he is performing.

They are all fake? How do you know that?

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If he truly has the gift of healing why doesn't he go to St Judes and heal all those sick and injured children?

Why doesn't Jesus do that?

Ok, I don't know for a fact that "all" of his faith healings are fake, but I heard on the radio a report from a Baptist Pastor who went to one of his revivals, and followed up with several of the people who had been "healed". Surprisingly enough not a single one of them had actually been healed. You will notice that none of the "healings" are for any visibile injurys.

Why doesn't Jesus do that, you ask? Because he already did. Jesus no longer needs to prove his divinity with miracles. It is up to us to care for the sick, the downcast, and the poor, not just the people who bring their money to our revivals.

If this power truly comes to Todd Bently from the holy spirit how come he doesn't use it outside of his revivals? Why does he have to "beat" the holy spirit into people (Jesus or the disciples never did that)? I'm not saying the man is a complete charlatan, but his methods seam rather suspect to me.

Staybrite wrote:

Ok, I don't know for a fact that "all" of his faith healings are fake, but I heard on the radio a report from a Baptist Pastor who went to one of his revivals, and followed up with several of the people who had been "healed". Surprisingly enough not a single one of them had actually been healed. You will notice that none of the "healings" are for any visibile injurys.

I'm not trying to come off as a Todd Bentley apologist here, because I don't really know much about him, but I'm sceptical about this report because:

a) As this man was a Baptist minister, I would suspect that his goal was not to truly investigate the matter, but to debunk it. He is most likely a hostile investigator who has already decided that Todd Bentley is false and is trying to build a case to prove that. And I'm not saying this because I'm down on Baptists, I was heavily involved in a Baptist church for 16 years.

b) If you think logically about this, it sounds fishy on the face of it. These people claimed to be healed and then when approached by this pastor denied it? Why did they claim to be healed in the first place? Which statements are we to believe?

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Why doesn't Jesus do that, you ask? Because he already did. Jesus no longer needs to prove his divinity with miracles.

So Jesus' healings were only to prove His divinity and not out of compassion for the people and their suffering?

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It is up to us to care for the sick, the downcast, and the poor, not just the people who bring their money to our revivals.

First, this statement shows a bias. Have you been to a Todd Bentley meeting, or seen one on TV? What makes you say that he only cares about the people who bring money to his revivals? He does not charge to attend his meetings and only receives one offering, taken four hours into the meeting, often when the crowds have thinned. This does not sound like the actions of a man who is primarily concerned with getting money.

Second, Jesus said that we are to care for the sick in part by praying for their healing.

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And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name . . . they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. - Mark 16:17-18

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. - Luke 10:19

"And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith." Mark 11:22-23

I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. - John 14:12-14

And the early church both taught and practiced praying for the sick to be healed:

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"Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. - Acts 5:16

"Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." - James 5:14-15

"Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus (which was for our victory), that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh." - 2 Corinthians 4:10-11

Third, healing can and do occur today. My pastor was in a wheelchair from an advanced case of rheumatoid arthritis and he was healed completely.

Another pastor at my church was born with one leg shorter than the other and his leg lengthened in the hands of someone who was praying for him. He thought that she was pulling his leg (literally).

I personally know many other people who have been healed of various things. Does healing occur every time I or some else prays for healing? Nope. But if it is possible to pray in faith for healing and recieve it, why would you refuse to do that, especially if Our Lord commanded us to do it?

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If this power truly comes to Todd Bently from
the holy spirit how come he doesn't use it outside of his revivals?

How do you know he doesn't? I'll be willing to bet that he does pray for the sick outside of his meetings. Even in his meetings, Bentley does not always do the praying, he has other people who pray and he also encourages people in the audience to pray for each other in their seats.

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Why
does he have to "beat" the holy spirit into people (Jesus or the
disciples never did that)? I'm not saying the man is a complete
charlatan, but his methods seam rather suspect to me.

Jesus spread mud on a man's eyes to heal him from blindness. At the least, that is a pretty odd method to use. It seems to me that the method is not really as important as the act of praying to God in faith and believing that we recieve it.

As I said, I'm not really that "up" on Todd Bentley or trying to be an apologist for him. All I'm trying to say is that God has commanded us to do what he is doing and if he is seeing people get healed in his meetings, he should be commended for that, not villified.

Personally, I wish I were more bold to pray for people to be healed. I have a condition myself that I have prayed for healing in the past, but have not yet seen it. But whether Jesus heals me now or in my resurrected body, I still believe in Him for my healing.

It is much the same as with other things we are promised in this life. I am not always full of joy, but I believe that the Holy Spirit has provided it for me. I'm not always filled with a feeling of peace, but it is mine if I just stand on God's Words and receive it. I'm not always loving or kind, but I'm trying to implement those things in my life and with God's help, I hope I'm getting better at manifesting those things.

Sorry Nick,

There is a huge difference in those passages you quoted calling for "prayers of healing" and the physical beatings Todd Bently is using to "heal" people. Watch some of his videos. Never before, have I ever heard of anyone getting healed from cancer by being kicked in the stomach.

And it is true that the Baptist minister who made that report may have been predisposed to be skeptical of Bently. But everyone has presuppositions.

His sermons (that continue for four hours or more) are consistent with confidence men who use long drawn out musical introductions and chanting style speaking (mesmerism) to work people into trance like states. Making them susceptible to suggestion. There is an interesting article concerning his encounter with an angel named "Emma" in wikipedia

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A controversy surrounds his alleged encounter with an angel he called 'Emma' at an AOG church in 2001. Bentley stated that the female angel gave him a vision of gold dust, and afterwards he received a breakthrough in terms of financial stability.[10] Among Assembly of God congregants, especially, there was debate about whether such a professed encounter was in line with AOG doctrine as set out in the 16 Fundamental Truths The most persistent challenge was twofold; whether the experience of a specifically female angel who prophesied financial well-being was a Biblically recognized phenomenon, and whether preaching about such an encounter was theologically responsible - would it bring converts to worship such an angel rather than the God who sent her? Bentley has argued that it was God's choice, and not his own, that an angel appeared to him in that manner.

That certainly doesn't sound consistent with visions given to prophets and apostles in the bible.

Tall Tyrion wrote:

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Why doesn't Jesus do that, you ask? Because he already did. Jesus no longer needs to prove his divinity with miracles.

So Jesus' healings were only to prove His divinity and not out of compassion for the people and their suffering?

I’m sure that may not of have been Jesus’ only reason, but it did prove that what he was doing actually came from God. Other prophets of the Old Testament and apostles from the New Testament where given this power and authority from God to prove their message came from Him as they delivered it to people. Those people did not have the bible to turn to for instruction.
But God has given us the bible, so what do we need with these sorts of miracle from modern day prophets and faith healers? Is the word of God no longer sufficient?

I have watched close to a few hours of these “revival” clips. Seldom does Bentley mention Jesus, or the need for people to “repent” and trust in Jesus (as scripture requires). Most of his “revivals” are filled with music, and Bentley’s ranting about his healings.
I don’t know anything of his real intent, but his methods are not consistent with honorable men of the past (or present) who desired to bring people to salvation in Christ.

Staybrite wrote:

Never before, have I ever heard of anyone getting healed from cancer by being kicked in the stomach.

I'm sure if he were spitting on the ground and smearing the mud in a blind person's eyes, we would say the same thing.

Elijah laid face down on a dead body and God raised him. How do miracles "normally" occur?

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And it is true that the Baptist minister who made that report may have been predisposed to be skeptical of Bently. But everyone has presuppositions.

I understand that, but why should we have a presupposition that God does not heal? Shouldn't we rather assume that He does?

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His sermons (that continue for four hours or
more) are consistent with confidence men who use long drawn out musical
introductions and chanting style speaking (mesmerism) to work people
into trance like states. Making them susceptible to suggestion.

Interestingly, I just finished watching a video at church tonight called "The Finger of God" that documents not only some of the "weirder" phenomenon that I'm not so comfortable with such as manifestations of gold dust and gold teeth and manna, but also has footage of the undergound churches in China.

They have twelve hour services there in rooms with temperatures up to 120 degrees. Is that done for the purpose of making people susceptable to suggestion or because they have a hunger for God that most of us in the Western Churches do not?

Here is the footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYuCFIQ2M1w&feature=related

Your presupposition is that Bently is doing this for a nefarious purpose. And that's what I have a problem with. Why should we presume that a brother in Christ is a fraud and a shyster? Just because his meetings last a lot longer than ours?

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I’m sure that may not of have been Jesus’ only
reason, but it did prove that what he was doing actually came from God.
Other prophets of the Old Testament and apostles from the New Testament
where given this power and authority from God to prove their message
came from Him as they delivered it to people.

Here is a woman (again from the movie I watched this evening)who is doing exactly the same thing in Africa.

Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IItm54FPQ5M&feature=related

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvfaTiFNIWc&feature=related

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Those people did not have
the bible to turn to for instruction.
But God has given us the bible, so what do we need with these sorts
of miracle from modern day prophets and faith healers? Is the word of
God no longer sufficient?

Not true. The OT prophets were ministering to people who had the Torah. Jesus and the apostles ministered to people who had the entire Tanakh. The exact same criticism was leveled at Jesus by the Pharisees

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I have watched close to a few hours of these “revival” clips. Seldom does Bentley mention Jesus, or the need for people to “repent” and trust in Jesus (as scripture requires). Most of his “revivals” are filled with music, and Bentley’s ranting about his healings.

You say you have watched "clips". How long were these clips and from where did you obtain them? I rather suspect that you were watching heavily edited snippets produced for the purpose of discrediting Mr Bentley. Have you ever watched a complete, unedited service? My boss has, and she says that he gives the gospel clearly and consistantly.

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I don’t know anything of his real intent, but his methods are not consistent with honorable men of the past (or present) who desired to bring people to salvation in Christ.

I know. We've always done it this way. I've heard that over and over, but I'm sorry, it does not carry any weight with me.

The lady in those clips referenced above is not doing it the way we've always done it in the Western Churches either and she is seeing thousands saved, in addition to the blind and deaf being healed. I say that God is getting glory from this, and I'd like to see it happen here. When Jesus ministered in Nazareth, the Bible says that He could not do much ministry there because of their unbelief (Matt 13:53-58). Sadly, it is much the same here in the West.

I watched those clips Nick and I don't see any of the pomp and showmanship of Todd Bentley's "revivals". And for the record I never said that miraculous healing does not occur.
The reason I suspect Bentley of being less than "on the level" is that his methods mirror the same techniques using by con-men. This does not mean that he is purposely trying to mis-lead people. But I find it highly suspect.

For some reason I am reminded of 2 Timothy 4:2-4 when I listen to Todd Bentley saying that God spoke to him to tell all the people about the angel (what angel I don't know).

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2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

To answer your question I got the Bentley clips from the same place you did, youtube. Some posted by his supporters, some by his detractors. I've said my peace about this, and much like Fundy suggested:

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I feel that we should share the true Gospel, rather than point the finger at people we disagree with.

I suggest we keep our eyes on Bentley and see what transpires in the future. I will be very surprised if we do not see some scandel. Hopefully I am wrong.