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 FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response

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Guilty/Forgiven

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PostSubject: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:02 pm

I tend to post more on FB these days than here, to my shame Crying or Very sad .
When I posted the following on FB, I realized they were too long for FB readers. Any FB post beyond a paragraph is usually something people scroll past (I know from experience Wink ).


SO, I thought hey, I know my CHM buds read more than a paragraph, I'll drop this on them and get their thoughts, responses, opinions, etc.

Here goes................

** I was talking with someone over on a Facebook site for those of us who suffer chronic pain associated with Degenerative Disc Disease (DDD). At one point he said this:
______________________________________________
FB Friend:
"I know I shouldn't think this but if an animal was in this kind of pain the humane thing to do would be to put them down... so how are we being humane to us - the Humans?"
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** The following was my response. I realize this is not a concrete answer, as there is somewhat of a broad brush-stroke here, but I want to hear what your thoughts are... how do YOU feel, or THINK you feel (since most [not all] of you have never been close enough to death to taste it and accept that it's over for you). 
__________________________________
My response:
"A point I've also thought about in the past. I think it boils down to, unlike the animals, all humans question their existence, if there's something after this life and whether the existence of good and bad play a role in what comes next. It is programmed into the human brain to contemplate the great beyond. 
All humans have a fear of death in one way or another: 
Human euthanasia would be absolutely humane if we knew atheism was 100% true. But even the atheist is afraid of death, as it is frightening to think of our consciousness being snuffed out forever. 
Similarly, a person who believes there's an all powerful Creator, but does not have a relationship with Him, fears standing in His presence due to human sinful natures.
One who indeed has a relationship with the Lord even fears death, not for a fear of judgment, but simply cuz the thought of dying is scary - it's programmed in us to guard our lives and prevent death at all costs. 
Thus, even one who wants to end their suffering once for all, still fears death."
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** Again, this is by no means an exhaustive response, nor is it true of every human... that's why I want to hear YOUR thought/view/feelings.  [Esp if you made it this far ;-) ]
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PostSubject: Re: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:34 pm

TLDR (just kidding.... I know it isn't a joking matter, especially for you)

I agree with your response.  I also think in general people love their life (regardless of their beliefs).  Even if it is a life filled with pain or suffering, most people don't want to willingly surrender their life.

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PostSubject: Re: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:19 pm

Quote :
most people don't want to willingly surrender their life

Very true. I often wonder about the many Christian martyrs or those who served our Country who gave their lives at such young ages. The average person guards their lives intensely, yet many have gone before us that appear to have been fearless of death. 
I have a friend in our Bible Study group who's been with us for 10 years now. He's in his early 60s and has cancer. Even though he has a strong faith, he is in SUCH denial of his imminent death. He doesn't even want to talk about it. He acts as if nothing's wrong, and if you bring up his soon death, he gets mad and says he has a lot of time left, that he's fine. I guess if you wanna live like that, it's cool. Idk.
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PostSubject: Re: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:51 pm

I also think there is a shift due to age regarding death.
My son is only 18 and is joining the Army (he leaves in June).  For some crazy reason he really hopes to serve in a combat role and gives little thought to the very real possibility that he could die in combat.  I get that because at 21 I was in a combat role.  I was distraught because my unit went to fight in Panama and I (along with 140 other soldiers) missed the plane.  We were afraid we had missed our only chance at combat (as if that should be everyone's goal...oh boy).  We did go about 4 days later and we were thrown in every dangerous situation possible, just so nobody could argue that our company hadn't really seen any "action".  We thought we were invincible.  We were young, death was so far away as to be inconceivable. But it wasn't.  One young soldier in our company was shot and killed (he was only 19).

Fast forward 30 years and I realize that I am over half-way through with this life.  Death is much more real to me know (as I watch my body break down) than it was when I was being shot at in Panama.  My father goes in for heart surgery (probably in May), even though it is a routine surgery he might not come out of it alive (he has several other health issues).  He's 68, and he certainly knows his time is short (that reminds me I need to call him).  So death (my own) is certainly more on my mind than it was when I was my son's age.

Just some thoughts.

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PostSubject: Re: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:57 pm

I find it interesting that the younger you are, and the less of life you've actually lived, the more invincible you think you are, or perhaps feel like it'd be cool to die doing what you love, beit combat, or extreme sporting or whatever. I myself was ready willing and WANTED to die serving God when I was a new believer (between 19 and 23 or so). When I hit my mid-20s, I started to hold onto life more and more until today where I no longer want to die. And yet, I'm closer to death and have lived WAY more life than my 19 year old self. Weird eh ?

Sayin' a prayer for your Dad bro. If he's anything like MY dad, he'll be fine... my Dad is 76 and is like a cockroach.... he's smoked since 13, had mini strokes, currently has a leg with little to no pulse from smoking and it looks like it's dead and rotting (in fact it smells like rot too  No ), yet the stubborn, un-killable man still gets around and does his projects in the garage. I always say he'll outlive all of us  Laughing
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messiaen77

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PostSubject: Re: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:22 am

Our brain wiring doesn't fully come together until we are in our mid-20s, particularly the connections to the part of our brain that says "Hey, doing stupid stuff could kill ya!"  I think that's part of why the young'uns think they are invincible.  Also there's a real glamor given to dying young--better to burn out than fade away.  I do think though as we get older, many of us really start to value life, maybe not our particular life, but life in the general sense. 

I think back to the original post, I think humans, unlike animals, are conscious of death.  Meaning, I don't think animals have an awareness that there is anything other than their present existence (the squirrels in my neighborhood certainly don't seem to consider their mortality at all), whereas humanity has been wrestling with the question of "what's next?" forever.  Even those of us who have faith in Christ for our home "in the sweet by and by" aren't chomping at the bit to get there.  Or as the DAS song says, "everybody wants to go to Heaven tonight, but nobody wants to die."
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PostSubject: Re: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:09 pm

Very well said Messiaen77 ! So true


Quote :
(the squirrels in my neighborhood certainly don't seem to consider their mortality at all)

ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL
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PostSubject: Re: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:52 pm

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:
Very well said Messiaen77 ! So true


Quote :
(the squirrels in my neighborhood certainly don't seem to consider their mortality at all)

ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL

Oh boy, that was hilarious!  lol!

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Jen5

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PostSubject: Re: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:03 pm

Plus, an animal doesn't understand their pain. It's just suffering in that moment and every moment that follows. There is no ability to hope, no wisdom to seek a solution, and no motivation to find comfort in suffering. My dad had terminal cancer. He didn't ever talk about his mortality. He didn't want to go there. It wasn't denial though. It was a conscious decision to fight for every breath despite the pain and to find joy where he could despite the pain until the day he died.

That said, euthanasia's a very personal thing. Would I cope with that amount of pain without being overtaken by despair? I don't know...hope I never need to find out though.
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PostSubject: Re: FB DDD Discussion Pt.1: philosophical response   Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:16 pm

I only hope I can be as strong as your Dad when that time comes. I've been there a couple of times when family members were on their death bed and it was quite scary. 
I thank God we have a hope beyond this ridiculous life, it's just the process of getting there that troubles me quite often
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