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 BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!

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MikeInFla

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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:20 am

Recent interview with Gene Simmons. Normally I don't pay attention to what ole Gene says but I guess this one makes some sense:


On another KISS record:
When and if it's the right time, i would wanna figure out a different business model because i refuse to stick it on clouds and shmouds and all this stuff where it's just like a puff of smoke that's gone, i want to feel, i want to see the art, i wanna feel the thing in my hand, i refuse to play by a broken down system that in a lot of ways is highway robbery, the artist, by the way it doesn't affect me,. I'm a rich son of a b**h and all that okay okay okay, the new little baby bands, how do they earn a living? How do you write your songs and, how'd you quit your day job and really do this full time? You can't.
It's crazy because the fans refuse to pay money for the records, and that means you're killing the new bands, you're killing them , you're not giving them the next elvis or elton or whoever you think is great, a chance. We had a lot of chance, we had record companies, they gave us millions and we could tour and do all that stuff, new bands have to go back to living in their mother's basement. That’s unfortunate.
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Jen5

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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:56 pm

ishmael81 wrote:

A second point is this - about a month ago, someone stole my lunch out of the fridge in our breakroom. I was really mad. It was 3 days until pay day and I had lunch to last that time but no money to go buy what was stolen. Then I thought (or maybe, the Spirit prompted me) "Maybe the person that stole it needs it more than I do." So maybe the people that pirated your music need to hear it and something good will still come of it.

That's what I was thinking too. These things happen and our first response is always outrage, anger and such, but after that knee-jerk reaction quietens down, we can see the bigger picture. It IS a huge loss (for me in particular because music is my bread and butter whereas John has a full time job), but there are more important things than money. If the album speaks to one person, then we're happy about that, even if it came to them through pirated music.

There was a story in the news down here that was similar to yours. A woman stole the clothes and blankets off someone's clothesline. One of the blankets stolen had sentimental value because the blanket belonged to a baby who had died. The mother was in the paper pleading with the thief to return the blanket. The thief, also a mother, experienced such remorse from what she had done. She returned the blanket with profuse apologies and tears. After some prompting it was discovered that the thieving mother was destitute and she had no way of providing for her child. The outpouring of goodwill to the family was massive. The blanket was exchanged for a less sentimental one and the community gave her clothes and housewares. It was a beautiful thing.
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Alan TWWB



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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:59 am

Sorry situation, but that seems to be the way it goes these days.  Our band, The World Will Burn, seems to have a similar story to yours.  I live in the US and my singer, Dale Thompson, lives in New Zealand. We did two albums together with email.  Dale and I just saw each other and spoke for the first time since 2014 last weekend when he came to the US for a short visit.  It really has it challenges.  

Both of our albums have been ripped off and posted for download by dozens of sites within 24 hours of their release.  We want exposure, sure, but every sale matters to an indie band.  We aren't mad about not making more money, we just don't want to lose as much money as it takes to release an album.  If indie musicians can't at least break even, it becomes difficult to justify.  

We started writing on a new one, and I think we are going to crowd fund it and only sell physical CDs to those that support it for a few months before we release anything digitally.  Maybe that will help.  Thank you to all of you who buy music and support indie Christian music.
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Jen5

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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:25 pm

Given your already established fan base, selling only CDs might work out just fine. I will be very interested in how that works out, Alan. Interesting that you guys are also working remotely and that Dale is also in NZ. I didn't know that. I thought you were both in the US.

For me, the biggest challenge has been not being in the same room to write our songs. Every refinement to the song structure takes so much back and forth (usually by email). Changes that would take a moment f2f, take so much longer to realize. There are, however, benefits. Those unavoidable pauses mean we are almost forced to slow down and reflect on the songs much more than we might do f2f.
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Alan TWWB



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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:52 pm

Jen5, you point out the exact most difficult challenge to recording remotely.  Small adjustments take forever, and when you notice something that needs fixing sometimes it isnt worth it.  There are a couple of things that help.  First, you really have to trust your partner.  Second, you cant sweat the small stuff.  Third, it makes you really focus on getting the song complete on the first version.  When I crank a song out, it usually have it 90% done the first day.  It's the same with Dale's lyrics.  We really crank out the songs fast.  
They talk about exposure from streaming music, but I really havent noticed much of it.  It seems like we get some of the old Bride fans, and otherwise just get more listeners from word of mouth.  We get a lot more traction in the secular market than the christian market.  
Honestly I dont know what to do about the problems with streaming music.  I like the opportunity to reach out to new fans, but the piracy and low compensation really bury more bands than get exposed.
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Jen5

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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:15 am

You nailed it, Alan! We've struggled with the feeling that "sometimes it isn't worth" making those small adjustments. I drive John crazy with them. I'm interested to read that you've learned to let that stuff go. That's something I need to work on. I do get to a point where I say, "enough," but it takes a while for me to get there. It's letting go of that "working in the same room" mentality. Tricky to do.

Like you, though, we do try to get our parts nearly done before sending them. It's either that or labeling them very clearly as rough takes for discussion. It's one thing to discuss the idea of the song and another to actually ferry back and forth tracks in a never-ending loop. Even with a Dropbox, that just doesn't work.

Regarding exposure from streaming, I've been reading about the importance of playlists, the playlist hierarchy, and getting on playlists. It's daunting, but seems doable if you're willing to play the game. I found the CDBaby guide very helpful (https://members.cdbaby.com/campaigns/spotify_playlisting_guide.pdf). I don't know if this link will work because it's a pdf and possibly linked to membership, but I'll attach it here just in case it does and you're interested in reading about it.

I think since we're doing the same thing, why don't we agree to update one another if we find a strategy that works for streaming, piracy, compensation, and exposure. Are you game?
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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:19 am

Quote :
We started writing on a new one, and I think we are going to crowd fund it and only sell physical CDs to those that support it for a few months before we release anything digitally.  Maybe that will help.  Thank you to all of you who buy music and support indie Christian music.

That might work for some, but I have sold far more downloads than CDs with my recent album.  CDs are pretty much just something I have to give away to online or terrestrial radio stations to get them to play me as many won't accept digital downloads despite they are going to rip them anyway for their database.  They want a backup copy. 

I have sold MAYBE 45 CDs.  I've sold well over a hundred downloads which is nothing to sneeze at seeing I don't have a website and am not out playing.

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messiaen77

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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:30 am

alldatndensum wrote:
Quote :
We started writing on a new one, and I think we are going to crowd fund it and only sell physical CDs to those that support it for a few months before we release anything digitally.  Maybe that will help.  Thank you to all of you who buy music and support indie Christian music.

That might work for some, but I have sold far more downloads than CDs with my recent album.  CDs are pretty much just something I have to give away to online or terrestrial radio stations to get them to play me as many won't accept digital downloads despite they are going to rip them anyway for their database.  They want a backup copy. 

I have sold MAYBE 45 CDs.  I've sold well over a hundred downloads which is nothing to sneeze at seeing I don't have a website and am not out playing.
Plus I've seen cases where downloads/torrents were available on albums within days of physical CDs being sent to Kickstarter supporters, so there's no sure-fire way to stop piracy.
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Alan TWWB



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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:58 am

Everyone,
I really don't know the secret to protecting our original music and to making a little money off of it to help defray costs.  I sometimes see "techniques" or "systems" that you can pay for that say they will teach you how.  Anyone tried one?  
Maybe it is better for another topic.  If so, loop me in.  I will keep working on it from my end too.
Some may say that if you make better music, the money will come.  I don't want to brag but I am pretty proud of the two CDs we have put out. I would put them against any modern hard rock out there.  To be honest, I don't think those secular bands are making that much either, and they are having the same problems us Christian indie guys are having too.
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messiaen77

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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:03 pm

Alan TWWB wrote:
Everyone,
I really don't know the secret to protecting our original music and to making a little money off of it to help defray costs.  I sometimes see "techniques" or "systems" that you can pay for that say they will teach you how.  Anyone tried one?  
Maybe it is better for another topic.  If so, loop me in.  I will keep working on it from my end too.
Some may say that if you make better music, the money will come.  I don't want to brag but I am pretty proud of the two CDs we have put out. I would put them against any modern hard rock out there.  To be honest, I don't think those secular bands are making that much either, and they are having the same problems us Christian indie guys are having too.
I would agree Alan, both on this being an industry-wide issue and that you should be pretty proud of those two discs.  Honestly, I don't think there is any way to put a total stop to piracy.  Heck, there aren't even uniform copyright laws across the world for recourse against those who illegally distribute copyrighted works, although I would suspect that most of the people who are buying and uploading your albums are probably right here in the good ol' USA and those uploads are just making their way into the networks and onto Russian sites.
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Jen5

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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:10 pm

Alan TWWB wrote:
I really don't know the secret to protecting our original music and to making a little money off of it to help defray costs.  I sometimes see "techniques" or "systems" that you can pay for that say they will teach you how.  Anyone tried one?  

Hmmm, that sounds like a money grab to me. If there was a "system" out there, then I think all the big guys would be using it.

I agree, messiaen, the reports I've read put the USA at the top of digital downloads. Interestingly though, I read yesterday that metal fans are the most loyal fans on Spotify. It isn't surprising, but it's kind of neat to have it confirmed with numbers. So, I guess the silver lining is that while heavy music isn't mainstream, it's doing pretty well in this digital age of ours.
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rockerVu2

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PostSubject: Re: BEYOND THE GATES - STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS!!   Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:33 pm

AllanTWWB, you are very welcome at CHM.
We all hope you like it in our small musical family here.
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