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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Uncertain times   Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:22 pm

The church where I serve as a youth pastor has had undercurrent after undercurrent of division.  I'm still willing to serve, but my time may be running out. 

Some of the folks who seem to literally hate our pastor and have done nothing but oppose him at every turn have stopped attending regular services.  They still come to Sunday School and then duck out of worship.  They have started a Bible study at different peoples' houses and are pulling people away from the church to come to that.  I feel that they are going to come back in like a wolf pack to vote out the pastor.  They may do the same to me and "take back their church".  They tried to vote the pastor out three years ago but it didn't work.  This time, I am certain that they will succeed.

I just need clarity about who I can/can't trust.  I want to keep ministering to my youth without taking sides.  But, it is getting harder and harder to love well.  I need this to end whether I am still on staff or not.  I will serve wherever God opens a door.  I just want this situation to end.  I also want anyone who has the wrong motives for this division to be exposed so that the world can see them for who they really are.

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:08 pm

Will keep you in prayer!
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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:10 am

Thank you!

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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:34 am

That sucks bro. Praying for you and the church. It's tough to be Christ's bride when we're acting like Gomer...
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:08 pm

Horrible situation to be in.  Will be praying.

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:30 pm

We have had issue after issue like this for the 7 years I have been there.  It has been turmoil over and over again.  Sadly, you can see how little this church is growing personally as they seem to be stuck in the spoiled rotten baby stages.

I believe that there are some good people, but there are some definite bad apples too.  There are a couple of prominent families who truly believe this is "their church".  If they don't get their way, they keep manipulating and stirring up dissension to get their way.  I had hoped that after a few of these folks left that they would grow up and move on.  I fear that they are building this new Bible study just to come in and strong arm a vote to rid themselves of our pastor.  If they wish for me to go, just tell me and I will hand in a resignation.  I want God to do something big here, and if that means me not being there, then I am okay with that.

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:44 am

Have you put any feelers out to other churches? 7 years seems like a long time for youth pastors. In the church I grew up we normally cycled them about every 4 or 5 years (which worked out good for me because mine started when I was in 8th grade and he left at the end of my senior year). Look around your area for other youth pastor jobs. 

We started attending a new church a little over a year ago because my daughter wasn't happy with the youth. She said it was full of snobby girls. Many of the girls her age stopped attending youth for the same reason. So we just changed churches and it has been good. My daughter now goes on mission trips in the summer and has some really close friends in youth. I don't know how many kids they have but it might vary from 25 to 75 kids (maybe even more) and the church as a whole is thriving and growing. But the thing about big churches the youth pastors are full time so I don't know if you would be able to still work at the school and be a youth pastor. I think the best bet is to look around and find somewhere else to go that is a small church. Look for an open door somewhere and maybe God doing something BIG is finding you a new church home.
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Staybrite

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:11 pm

alldatndensum wrote:

There are a couple of prominent families who truly believe this is "their church".  If they don't get their way, they keep manipulating and stirring up dissension to get their way.  

We attended a church just like that several years back.  There were two prominent families that went to war over control of the church.  They finally drove the pastor (who was very good) away along with several of the other families (including us).

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:33 pm

Man... I've seen this in SO many churches... there's GOT to be another way. A different way to handle these kind of things. Different than the same exact course of action taken in every single church, given enough time. I'm not in the center of this storm, matter of fact, I'm a million miles away from it, but it seems to me that if everyone can agree on the basics of Who Christ is, and what He did for us, then everyone should be able to come together in a meeting to discuss EVERYTHING ! I may be speaking foolishness, but I sure wish these things could be discussed in a civil manner and everyone, whether they agree or not, could come together to lay everything on the table and discuss all issues at hand.
 
I don't know..maybe I'm a bit altruistic in this matter, but I think everything can be worked out. Not solved, but worked out in some manner.
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:45 am

Ugh, been there and am definitely praying for you and your church alldat.  

G/F, it is only foolishness only because it is truth.  The problem that ALWAYS seems to happen in churches (see Paul's letters) is that they are made up of people and despite our best intentions, there is an element in many/most/all of us that tends toward selfishness and we want the church we attend to cater to our needs/wants.  That always seems to get in the way of the fact that we should be working toward a common goal of lifting up the name of Jesus and giving hope and life to a hopeless, dying world.
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:53 am

I hope it's God Himself who will open the eyes of those families.
To show them it's not about them, but all about God.
Maybe the "rotten apples"have to be removed to get a healthy church again.\
Or can it be God to show you it's time to leave and serve an other church?
Praying for you and the church.
God will show you the way.
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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:38 pm

All I can do at this point is pray, seek the Lord's direction, and wait.  The down side is that I am not known for my patience.

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:41 am

messiaen77 wrote:
Ugh, been there and am definitely praying for you and your church alldat.  

G/F, it is only foolishness only because it is truth.  The problem that ALWAYS seems to happen in churches (see Paul's letters) is that they are made up of people and despite our best intentions, there is an element in many/most/all of us that tends toward selfishness and we want the church we attend to cater to our needs/wants.  That always seems to get in the way of the fact that we should be working toward a common goal of lifting up the name of Jesus and giving hope and life to a hopeless, dying world.


I believe there are too many practitioners in the church who are not believers.”- C. S. Lewis

Now that's not to say that these folks aren't all believers but... one has to wonder sometimes.
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:13 am

I was raised in fairly strict christian way, which contained having utter contempt for nowadays churches. I kinda shook off the latter part, but things like this... make me sick.

It reminds me of the concert band of my birth town; this summer my youngest brother left, as the last of my family. It became too much of an association dominated by certain families/persons; they also got rid of the conductor (who was good and a very nice man), by nagging and manipulating.

Why I bring this up? Because the resemblance between your church and my old concert band is striking. It looks like your church has become more of a club than a church... in a very smallminded manner.

Harsh words from my side and I don't have any words of consolation or advice, but I will pray for you and your church.
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:01 pm

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Why I bring this up? Because the resemblance between your church and my old concert band is striking. It looks like your church has become more of a club than a church... in a very smallminded manner.

It is even more than a club.  For some of these people, they are 3rd and 4th generation of families that started the church 193 years ago.  They truly believe that this is THEIR church.

The Bible study that some have started at another location is getting bigger.  A couple of our deacon's family's are now getting involved.  They have begun seeking a building to start having services even though they swear that this isn't what they are doing.  The main people in charge of this have gotten a rather bad reputation around, so what few available buildings there are around have denied them the use of their facilities.  A much smaller church that will die when its two or three remaining members die even turned them down, and this would have brought them new people and a pastor!  So, if they are going to come in and try to force the pastor and possibly myself out, then they are getting to a point where they are going to have to make a move.

I feel that I need to stay neutral to what is going on.  If God keeps me here in whatever way, I want to be able to minister to folks long after this mess clears up.  I will not let them vote me out, however.  If that comes to where it seems this is likely, I will tender my resignation effective immediately after I collect my personal belongings from the church.  

I just hate not knowing if/when all this mess is gonna hit the fan.  I just wish it would happen at our next business meeting that is only a week away.

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:42 am

Well, hopefully they won't come up to you right before Sunday services and say that they'd like if you didn't preach/teach  Shocked  And yes, that has happened at a church I once attended.
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:23 pm

They've done that to my pastor several times.  They even tried voting him out 3 years ago but the church rallied around him then.  Now, I think that my wife and I are the only support he really has.

The "Bible study" is now a full church as they voted to organize Sunday.  They have a location a couple miles down the road.  So, a full blown church split is in effect.  Part of me wants to tough it out until I feel God wants me to leave.  The rest of me wants to say screw it and walk out.  I care, but this cripples both congregations as this is a small community and people talk.  The new church will start with a bad reputation and the old gets most of the families with young children and teens removed as they go with the new plant.

They even have a pastor.  The people who organized this new Bible study/church found him.  What is weird about that is he was the pastor at my current church years ago.  These same people didn't like him and had him ousted.  Why is he even trusting them now especially when they've done this whole starting a new church secretly and only inviting who they wanted.  I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

The future is even more clouded now.  Will more people gravitate to the new church?  Will I lose my job with the youth if we drop any more?  Will our pastor take the hint and step down?  Should I save myself the embarrassment of being let go and step out now with dignity?  I want this church to grow, but Satan has had a stranglehold on it since long before I arrived.  It looks like he's just dealt a cheap shot again.

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:46 am

It's so sad to read this all.
I hope God will show what is His will on a very clear way to you.
Satan has NO right to rule this church.
Your church belongs to God.
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:30 pm

Very frustrating.  If I was you part of me would want to stick it out and see if church can somehow be revived, but another part of me would just want to ditch all the nonsense and quit.

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:07 pm

Staybrite wrote:
Very frustrating.  If I was you part of me would want to stick it out and see if church can somehow be revived, but another part of me would just want to ditch all the nonsense and quit.



That is EXACTLY where I am at!

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:45 pm

Sad to hear all this junk, but what does God and the Bible say you should do?

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:06 pm

All I feel right now is that I am supposed to wait.  That's frustrating too as I don't know for what or how long.

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:52 am

Waiting is frustrating.
You don't know why God is let you waiting.
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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:41 pm

This is indeed sad reading all this.  I know of a number of churches over here who have been through stuff like this and it's just horrible to go through.  No words of wisdom from me, as I don't know what to say, but I can pray for you all, and I will do that.

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PostSubject: Re: Uncertain times   Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:13 am

You know what is really weird?  These people handpicked who they wanted to start a church with.  Now that they have their own place, some of them are still attending Sunday School at ours and a couple have even kept their teaching positions.  So, these are a bunch of fence sitters!  If you dislike the pastor that much at our church, then go enjoy what you have started.  Well, unless you intend to wait for the right moment to come back and try to force the rest of us to accept your new pastor as ours.

I don't think so!  A church started in turmoil will only breed turmoil.  I've seen it in many congregations.  I just cannot trust the people involved in this that are keeping their feet in both camps.  If you are on the fence in something like this, there can really only be two reasons:  A) you are torn on what to do, or B) you are up to something.  GET OFF THE FENCE!!!  Either serve God where you are already planted or go somewhere else.  I can respect those that gave up their positions and have left.  When they request their memberships be moved, then I will know they have done what they feel is right for them and their families.



Sorry.....I had to vent!

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