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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Heaven movies   Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:42 pm

Heaven Is For Real

90 Minutes In Heaven

Miracles In Heaven

(More to come, I am sure!)



Are these books/films meant to be merely?  Are they meant to be the new "doctrine" of the church?  Are they just tools of Satan to mislead the general public and woo them into certain damnation?  Or, are they just baby steps towards a deeper relationship with God through Christ?

I had a conversation today with a buddy about these that he deleted from Facebook.  Apparently, he thinks that everyone that sees them are just "sheeple".  Personally, I feel that this is just being judgmental and hateful by name calling just because he doesn't like the movie content.  He felt that they should have a deeper Biblical message and that these are misleading people.

For me, I see them as entertainment for the church and not a sermon.  I also see them as attempts to get non-believers to at least entertain the notion of a loving God and start the conversation asking more about Him.  Nothing more.  I don't think that they are unBiblical whether they are fiction or factual representations of something that happened to these families.  In each of these book to movie stories, the people affected had their faith in Jesus restored and became more concerned about the salvation of others.  How is that a bad thing?

Anyway, let's discuss if we can.  Apparently, you can't discuss this with someone who already has started name calling over the issue at hand.

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:21 pm

I haven't seen any of those and nor do I care to, but my gut feeling would be along the lines of what you said about them being entertainment for the church and maybe an accessible starting point for nonbelievers to be introduced to the concept of a loving God.

There's usually some stuff in movies as those that is theologically incorrect or unbiblical, but typically fairly minor stuff.  My fiancee watched The War Room and apparently there's a scene where a main character commands Satan to leave or something.  Stuff like that is not too theologically sound or biblical, but I also don't think it's too crucial for in the big scheme of things.
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:49 pm

So you don't watch any of the faith based movies that come out?

It doesn't bother me.  I am just asking for clarification.

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:44 pm

Not typically.  The ones I have seen have just been so poorly done and I generally dislike cutesy/inspirational movies.   Twisted Evil What a Face rendeer (Inspirational sports and English class movies are my absolute least favorite of all hahahaha!)  And most of the Christian movies fall into that category.  This one interests me however:




I remember thinking The Exorcism Of Emily Rose was pretty well done which is a horror film with a Christian message.  Richard Kelly's films have a lot of Christian themes (at least Southland Tales and The Box do) and I think they're fantastic, though they're definitely not "Christian movies."

I will fully admit that I am a complete movie snob and my taste in movies rarely overlaps with others haha!
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:10 pm

If you like the looks of this, then you should have seen "Risen".  You get top level acting and a great story.

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:08 pm

I've seen quite a few Christian films (some of them better than others). I have to confess I don't think I have seen any of the three you mentioned. I do remember when the first one came out (about the child that went to heaven and claimed to talk to dead people). I remember running into a few people where more than a little upset with the films “canonical authenticity”. I have to confess I never really gave it much thought about people possibly going to heaven and then returning.

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:08 pm

I think it is just an inspirational trend for tough times.  I personally am skeptical of NDE stories (like the Heaven is Real story), but I'm not going to start an argument over it.  As for being unBiblical, I don't think the Bible is real clear on the details of the afterlife for a reason.  It isn't like the Egyptian Book of the Dead that is intended to lead souls to the other side, it is a life manual that is intended to lead souls here.  I'm not a fan of faith-based movies (for the reasons Kerrick mentioned), but that's just my taste.  I have no ill will toward those who watch them.
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:26 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:02 am

I didn't see anything wrong with "Heaven is For Real".  I definitely am not going to take 37 minutes to listen to a video telling me that I am wrong.

Yes, I do agree that not everything in these is Biblical.  However, when the point comes down to seeking God through Christ, I see nothing wrong with them for the reasons I stated above.

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Candlemass

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:12 am

Perhaps you don't want to see...
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:56 am

The only one I am familiar with, at least a little, is Heaven is for Real. However, while I didn't listen to all of Candlemass' clip, I agree with Mr. Hanegraaf. Personally, I do not believe in "heavenly visits" or near death experiences.  Remember, Pharaoh had magicians that could do much of what Moses did with his staff, and Paul called Satan the "angel of light". (2 Cor 11:14).

I do like good Christian movies though, even those based on Biblical history, as long as they do not deviate from or take too many liberties with the Truth.
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:59 pm

I really have little to no interest is private revelations, by in large they lead people away from the true faith, and that is no witness to the lost worth sharing...
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:30 am

Candlemass wrote:
Perhaps you don't want to see...


Or maybe I am secure enough in my faith that movies like this aren't going to add or detract anything from my beliefs. Also, who has the time to view every video or read every blog piece from someone who makes a living off of branding other people heretics?

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:39 am

Ok, believe what you like...
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:48 am

"Send Lazarus to my family."

"They have Moses and the Prophets, let them hear them."

"They will not hear them, but if one were to rise from the dead, they will believe."

"If they will not hear them, they will not believe even if one were to rise from the dead."

To wit, if they will not hear/heed the scriptures, they will not heed any vision, real or imagined...
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:31 am

Candlemass wrote:
I really have little to no interest is private revelations, by in large they lead people away from the true faith, and that is no witness to the lost worth sharing...


I doubt that most "lost" people are popping in to see this.  Most of the ticket sales for a faith based movie are from Christians who already know about the resurrection of the dead.  Besides, I already said that they were merely something to get a conversation going.  I don't think that many people will claim to have found or walked away from Christ after seeing these.  I do think that some people who are already believers might find some hope in these in hopeless times.  Other than that, they are merely entertainment.

Some people just need a saber to rattle and a war drum to beat.

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:12 am

Well, w/that line of reasoning, I suppose "The Da Vinci Code" could get a conversation started as well....
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:18 am

My two cents here are pretty simple. By and large Christian movies are not that great in my view. So many of them have such a huge agenda that everything else is not worried about: poor script writing, low quality acting, etc. I have no problem with art that talks about faith - we all listen to Christian music, right?

But I think we also have to separate entertainment from scripture teaching and doctrine. Entertainment wise, Heaven is for Real was an okay book (didn't see the movie, read the book) but as far as using it as sound teaching... I'd hesitate to even consider it.
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:10 pm

ishmael81 wrote:
My two cents here are pretty simple. By and large Christian movies are not that great in my view. So many of them have such a huge agenda that everything else is not worried about: poor script writing, low quality acting, etc. I have no problem with art that talks about faith - we all listen to Christian music, right?

But I think we also have to separate entertainment from scripture teaching and doctrine. Entertainment wise, Heaven is for Real was an okay book (didn't see the movie, read the book) but as far as using it as sound teaching... I'd hesitate to even consider it.


Bingo!  I don't think that the book authors or the movie makers either one are trying to say that their works are on the level of Scripture.  I look at them more as entertainment that at least shines a positive light on people of faith and on God/Jesus.

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:41 pm

Candlemass wrote:
Well, w/that line of reasoning, I suppose "The Da Vinci Code" could get a conversation started as well....

And it did.  I thought DVC was an intriguing piece of fiction, and that's all it was--fiction.  It's also an interesting Grail theory, but again, just a theory.  There's nothing wrong with having conversations.  If anything, a good conversation will give those of us who know the Truth an opportunity to share that Truth.  The important story of Jesus isn't whether or not he was secretly married and left a bloodline throughout history.  The important story of Jesus is the one we just experienced for the umpteenth time this past weekend.  We need to be spending more energy spreading that story than refuting the other.

I'm not going to comment on any of the movies alldat mentioned because I haven't seen them.  My mother gave me her audio book of Heaven is Real, but I've never listened to it because it is just not my thing.  (She is the kind of person these books/movies are made for--the person who loves a good ol' inspirational "based on a true story" movie.)  What I will say is that if we want to put all our energy into denouncing and refuting every falsehood  and every tainted version of our Faith (even the ones promoted by some of these movies), who is going to put out the Truth?  You illuminate the darkness by shining a light, not by telling people how the darkness isn't light.
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:51 pm

Am I missing something here, or are some of you suggesting that truth isn't important?
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:29 am

Candlemass wrote:
Am I missing something here, or are some of you suggesting that truth isn't important?


You are missing something.

We are only saying that these types of stories can START the conversation.  It is our duty as believers to guide people into the truth FROM those conversations.  A movie itself shouldn't have to be a sermon.  If they are too heavy handed, the general population isn't going to see them.

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:31 am

^The general (secular) population isn't going to watch these movies either though!   Wink   There are very few Christian flicks that have transcended the church-going crowd.  The Passion Of The Christ is the first that comes to mind.  But then you have stuff like Noah or that other one with Christian Bale that came out in the past few years that I can't think of the name now...  (Both of those films are very secular/incorrect depictions of biblical events.)

Like Christian music, I think we first need to agree on just what the mission/agenda is of the movie(s).  Most Christian music seems to really only cater to Christians.  That's fine, we can find godly encouragement, worship God through it, etc.  And for the outreach-oriented bands, we can take our friends to concerts and subject them to quality, God-honoring, face-melting music!  Same goes for the movies.  I'd guess most of them, at the end of the day, are for Christians to be entertained and encouraged by.  And secondly, as possible means of outreach and get the conversations started.

On the note of getting the conversation started...  in college I spoke to one of the Westboro Baptist guys who came to my campus yelling at fags and whores and whatever...  When not yelling, he was actually pretty calm and dare I say rational?  But that was his argument: that all the offensive signs and whatnot were really to just get the conversation started.  affraid  So there are good ways and obviously bad ways to do that...
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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:26 pm

kerrick wrote:


On the note of getting the conversation started...  in college I spoke to one of the Westboro Baptist guys who came to my campus yelling at fags and whores and whatever...  When not yelling, he was actually pretty calm and dare I say rational?  But that was his argument: that all the offensive signs and whatnot were really to just get the conversation started.  affraid  So there are good ways and obviously bad ways to do that...

So acting like a major butt-hole can be a form of "branding" for your movement of hatred. It does have some sort of logic to it.

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PostSubject: Re: Heaven movies   Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:34 pm

Hahahaha yeah I guess...  This is the world we live in!!!  affraid scratch Fight Stupid
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