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BearDad



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PostSubject: CMR   Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:19 pm

I finally decided to pull the plug and delete my account over there. I tried to go back from time to time, even tried to engage in discussion, but I just got so tired of watching certain individuals try to lead good people astray. I won't say any more, because I know some folks over here still hang out over there. But that place is so oppressive.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:11 pm

I haven't visited in a while. What happened?

Edit: I just realised you said that you won't say any more..
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metaldude

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:14 pm

It's sad that anything with "Christian" in the name doesn't allow Christianity in anything more than name only. Even if you dare use the C-word, it's met with contention almost every time.
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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:52 am

I started a sabbatical from there on Friday to see if I miss it.  I just haven't really felt like I belonged in some time and decided to take some time away before just pulling the plug.

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Guilty/Forgiven

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:50 am

I bailed that ship a couple years ago. It's over run by liberal non believers with an occasional Christian here and there. Besides, EVERYTHING has to be argued and I don't have the time or patience for that kinda crap.  I don't fit anywhere they don't allow opinions.
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MikeInFla

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:21 am

I'm still there and participate from time to time but a lot of times I just read/lurk. I know what alldat means, music-wise it is leaning on the black metal stuff. That is kind of why I stay, not because I like that stuff (I don't) but because I feel someone has to keep everyone posted of the old school or melodic metal. Whenever a classic band releases something new or a reissue I like to post about it on the forums I frequent (and discuss it with the other people like me in their mid-40's who grew up on that stuff). If it is overtaken by the heavier metal then some folks might miss out. The only reason I would leave would probably be out of boredom.

A very wise kid once said:



With emphasis on the last two. I'm there for the music. I'm here (CHM) for the people and the music.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:31 pm

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:
I bailed that ship a couple years ago. It's over run by liberal non believers with an occasional Christian here and there.

I don't understand. Aren't there liberals, conservatives, and people in between on CMR? Also, I thought most people there Christians...
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kerrick

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:07 pm

BearDad, I was really bummed to get the automated notification that you deleted your account.  Sad

I understand why though.  Jim, to say it's "overrun" by liberals and nonbelievers may be a bit of an exaggeration I think.  I agree, the general atmosphere is very liberal now and much of the "Christian" conversations aren't about the Christianity and God I know but rather some watered-down, human-serving-god that people have created to justify their own selves.  However, I think it's really only due to a couple people like that but they're just the particularly active/outspoken ones.  And in general, they're not causing a whole lot of trouble there otherwise (breaking rules, etc.).  How to address this... I am at a loss.  I don't think we should "separate the wheat from the chaff" and judge folks based on their beliefs and only allow the "true Christians" in.  That's God's job (thankfully!).  Cool


metaldude wrote:
It's sad that anything with "Christian" in the name doesn't allow Christianity in anything more than name only. Even if you dare use the C-word, it's met with contention almost every time.

I'm not sure if you mean the rules or the responses/discussions?  You may not have noticed, but we changed the rules to be much more open-ended and haven't been locking any theological threads or halting discussions on faith (until they spiral out of control and self-destruct) for quite some time now.
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Fundy

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:19 pm

I still check there most days, but I haven't posted much at all for years.

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1 - Believe In Jesus.
2 - Love one another.
3 - Let God be the judge.

That is all I need to say.
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BearDad



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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:21 pm

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:
I bailed that ship a couple years ago. It's over run by liberal non believers with an occasional Christian here and there. Besides, EVERYTHING has to be argued and I don't have the time or patience for that kinda crap.  I don't fit anywhere they don't allow opinions.

Where the "like button"?
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BearDad



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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:29 pm

alldatndensum wrote:
I started a sabbatical from there on Friday to see if I miss it.  I just haven't really felt like I belonged in some time and decided to take some time away before just pulling the plug.

I did a sabbatical for a while, then lurked for a while, the tried to participate again, only to get responses from certain individuals that were an obvious attempt to make me argue, something I freely admit I have to make an effort to not do.  No really, I do. Yes I do, stop arguing with me! Smile

Ultimately, I decided it was time to quit sitting in the dirty bathwater.
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BearDad



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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:39 pm

kerrick wrote:
BearDad, I was really bummed to get the automated notification that you deleted your account.  Sad

I understand why though.  Jim, to say it's "overrun" by liberals and nonbelievers may be a bit of an exaggeration I think.  I agree, the general atmosphere is very liberal now and much of the "Christian" conversations aren't about the Christianity and God I know but rather some watered-down, human-serving-god that people have created to justify their own selves.  However, I think it's really only due to a couple people like that but they're just the particularly active/outspoken ones.  And in general, they're not causing a whole lot of trouble there otherwise (breaking rules, etc.).  How to address this... I am at a loss.  I don't think we should "separate the wheat from the chaff" and judge folks based on their beliefs and only allow the "true Christians" in.  That's God's job (thankfully!).  Cool


metaldude wrote:
It's sad that anything with "Christian" in the name doesn't allow Christianity in anything more than name only. Even if you dare use the C-word, it's met with contention almost every time.

I'm not sure if you mean the rules or the responses/discussions?  You may not have noticed, but we changed the rules to be much more open-ended and haven't been locking any theological threads or halting discussions on faith (until they spiral out of control and self-destruct) for quite some time now.

Truth? You and one or two others were the reason I didn't delete my account the first time I bailed. But since you are here as well ... Smile  And, for that matter, so are the one or two others. Smile  Except Hardcore Christian; I like that kid.

I also have to say that a big reason for me leaving was seeing Adam leave. I had a great deal of respect for that man.  And when Alldat indicated he was leaving, even if only (possibly) temporarily, I felt I had to get out.

As for "breaking the rules," I never felt like anyone was doing that. But I am of the mind that "liberal" and "Christian" are opposite terms, and like Jim indicated there seems to be too many of the former and too few of the latter there. Yes I know, some Christians can be more liberal than others, but hanging out at CMR was beginning to make me feel like I did at the private Christian college I went to: to be enrolled I had to give my testimony and show that I was a Believer, just like the basketball players that took girls into their rooms at night did. IMO hypocrisy abounds at CMR.
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BearDad



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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:01 pm

xenonlion wrote:
Guilty/Forgiven wrote:
I bailed that ship a couple years ago. It's over run by liberal non believers with an occasional Christian here and there.

I don't understand. Aren't there liberals, conservatives, and people in between on CMR? Also, I thought most people there Christians...

Liberal, conservative, Christian .... in some ways these terms, or labels, are not unlike the ones we place on music. You can have hard rock and heavy metal, with some bands/songs floating back and forth between the two. However, IMO it is not possible for a liberal to be a true follower of Jesus; there are just too many things the liberals stand for that are completely contrary to what the Bible teaches, to what Jesus said, as well as Peter, Paul, and the other Patriarchs of the early churches.

As for your last statement, we should not assume most people there are Christian, any more than we should assume that here. Oh, most folks might say they are Christian, but to a near-sighted person a goat can look like a sheep, and don't forget that the enemy knows how to put sheep's wool on a wolf. I know it sounds harsh, and I know I am sounding judgmental, but unlike what some say I believe it is our duty to judge other believers, to hold them up to the light.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (ESV) wrote:
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Romans 16:17-18 (ESV) wrote:
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

1 John 4:1 (ESV) wrote:
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Yes, there are many verses that say things like "Judge not lest ye be judged" (Matt 7:1), but everything must be taken in context. Many of those passages were in situations where the speaker/write was talking to non-believers. In the above three passages Paul and John were writing to churches, to Christians.
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Staybrite

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:31 pm

Fundy wrote:
I still check there most days, but I haven't posted much at all for years.

Pretty much the same here.  I do still post a little (maybe an average of once a week).  But often times I hold my tongue on issues just because I don't want to be drug into an argument (doing so makes me angry and causes me to sin).

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Candlemass

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:23 pm

Been a member there since 04, things got a little weird over time and then something like this happened to me...

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messiaen77

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:13 am

I'm gonna be a good boy and just say that if you weren't happy there, then you absolutely made the right decision to leave.  No one should hang out somewhere where they don't feel comfortable and respected.
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rockerVu2

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:19 am

CMR is not what it was anymore.
That's not good.
I really don't like the arguing and the fightings because one believes this and an other believes that.
Let's accept each other that will be good for CMR.
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:33 pm

I hate to beat a dead horse but I understand most of the statements here. Most of you know that I don't even listen to much metal - I'm more of a punk/alternative/post-punk kind of guy. But it seems most of you don't care. Here, the music is secondary to the community.

I left because of several reasons (still have my username and look around from time to time) but generally I got to the point where I realized that certainty about how right you are is an idol where you worship yourself. I'll be the first to admit I may be wrong about openness theology, Christian pacifism, Christian anarchism (which may not be what some of you think), veganism and any other -ism I believe in as it relates to my faith - and I'm happy to tell you why I believe any of those things. Sadly, there are many folks (and not just at CMR) who believe their faith is only as strong as their intellectual assent to the thing in question.

When people refuse to budge and admit they could be wrong about something (which strikes me as very arrogant) and then to act like donkey-holes about it, that's usually when I look for the door.
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Through The Dark Radio

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:43 pm

Meh, I was a part of Firestream for a long time and have seen quite a few rebel-rousers (and banned a few as well  Twisted Evil).  These things come and go like the tide.
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bassdude

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:53 pm

I check in from time to time over there, kind of like I do here, mostly because I'm so busy I just don't have much time to spend on it.....I just always have to resist the urge to argue with certain people.

Don't really have that problem here.
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Staybrite

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:38 pm

bassdude wrote:
.....I just always have to resist the urge to argue with certain people.

Don't really have that problem here.

I completely understand....have the same "urge" myself.

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BearDad



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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:56 pm

bassdude wrote:
I just always have to resist the urge to argue with swear at certain people and tell them what I really think of them.

Don't really have that problem here.  Amen!

This was a big reason I left. I felt the forum was oppressive, but I didn't like how it made me feel. Instead of feeling like I was growing in any way, I felt like I was always logging off angry. Sometimes you just have to walk away from a bad relationship.
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kerrick

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:12 pm

As an engineer, I'm wired to view [and admittedly, over-simply] things to 'problem' and 'solution.'  If I see a problem, I want to solve it.  I think folks here have adequately acknowledged the existence of a problem.  What I'm curious is, what is the solution - or IS there a solution?  From what folks posted here, the symptoms of the problem(s) are:

-Too much arguing/bickering and attempts to incite more arguing
-General "oppressive" atmosphere
-Not enough "Christian" conversations (and possibly too restrictive rules on such topics)
-General liberal, non-Christian (and sometimes hypocritical) atmosphere
-Topics not interesting (more focus on extreme metal and not enough on classic metal/rock)
-Don't feel like [you] fit in
-Unjust banning/consequences
-Arrogance
-Negativity

Is that a pretty exhaustive list would you say?  If not, what did I miss?

I really want to do all that I can to make that place great.  But I'm not certain just how to do that.  I see perhaps the root of roughly half of the above complaints as being the fact that CMR gets a relatively large amount of traffic and therefore has quite a broad spectrum of folks with many differing beliefs, tastes in music, and personalities.  Contrast that to, say, here for example - which, while we're all unique and different, is made up primarily of pretty like-minded and agreeable people.  To resolve those issues associated with the variety of people, we could just get much more restrictive on who is allowed to stay.  Personally I think that'd be a pretty poisonous way to handle things.  But other than that... are there any suggestions?  And what about the other stuff like the oppressive, arrogant, or negative atmosphere?  There are some wise folks that frequent here; I'd like your thoughts.  I love you
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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:45 pm

My thoughts were to remove myself and just let it go at least for now.

The bickering, while currently minimal, will begin again when you get a couple of strong personalities that want to prove their point instead of just state what they feel and move on.  Too many times in the past, that round and round quibbling was allowed to go on as the staff seemed uncaring or unknowing.  That has to stop with the leadership.  If you let it go, it will grow.

The liberal Christianity/moral view?  You won't change it, Kerrick.  Right now, you have handful that seem to be on the same page that jump in and overwhelm anyone with a differing opinion.  They don't listen--they stir the pot.  They also have seem to operate in a pack mentality.  I don't mind discussion, but I refuse to be the one that has to take on 5 other guys in a verbal exchange.  You can't keep straight what was being asked and they manage to sweep away all the naysayers by tossing out replies before you can respond to the first.  They have silenced most of the people who disagree just by bonding together.  Want to see a simple example?  Go ask about a band that is questionable as to whether they are a Christian band or Christians in a band.  That will get those guys out just because they smell blood and will squelch any disagreement by being just rude enough to get a warning but never actually stepping over the line.  You have a few that are opposite that are just as strong but they don't speak up now because they are tired of hearing the status quo.  I know that I am.  Thus, my hiatus.

Not fitting in probably can't be fixed either.  How do you make me "feel" different?  I don't share the love for a lot of the music talked about now.  I don't fit in with the ultra-free gracers/borderline universalist beliefs that seem to be strongest voices there.  I don't lift weights, don't watch a lot of tv, and don't seem to read the same books.  So, for the most part, I don't converse.  I'm always going to feel like a square peg in that environment.  Thus, my hiatus.

How do you change the musical posts?  You don't.  You have to change the industry or have a safe haven that is pretty much in the same tastes as you.  That would be CHM for me.  Again, maybe a hiatus from CMR is due.

When I look at the pros/cons of leaving and perhaps permanently, I don't see a lot of reasons to stay.  With each passing day, I miss it less and less.  That's not so with this group.

I remember a day when I was a member of around 6 forums and was active in all of them.  Except for this one and CMR, the others are gone and many because the older dogs left.  It is kind of a reverse church right now.  Churches are struggling to keep the younger generations and the old ones try to maintain what they know.  The forums seem to die when too many young pups come in and the old ones leave with no place to go.  I guess it is the nature of a dead or dying medium:  the old school message board.

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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: CMR   Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:27 pm

I think a really difficult thing about this situation is that people are different than issues than be solved by doing a simple thing. You can make a thing do what you want it to do, but you can't change a person. At least not on your own. Especially if people are stubborn or set on their beliefs or how they are as a person.

It would be difficult to really put together a solution. The forum, in a way, is kind of like a "team." Everyone has to work together to keep order.

Also, I think everyone ought to love each other. I know it sounds really cliche, but I do mean that. There's a difference between having a discussion and getting bitter and having a temper tantrum because someone disagrees with you. People would get really riled up sometimes. A huge huge problem I see in people in general, including myself, is bitterness. I understand not liking something, but bitterness really isn't good and can be really unproductive.

I know people at CMR have been wanting the TR back, but it's hard to believe that most of them are ready for that. This may sound kinda mean, but to me it's like people are whining because they don't get their way...

It's definitely not your fault Kerrick. Nor is it the fault of Karam. It's just people being difficult I guess. I don't know how to deal with difficult people.
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