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 Tourniquet is losing me.

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Redeemed Fool

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PostSubject: Tourniquet is losing me.    Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:18 pm

Sorry, but they seem to have moved to all killing of animals is wrong and are aligning with people that are anti-christian. I'm not understanding their stance but there seems to be no questioning allowed. 
(steps off soapbox)
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Guilty/Forgiven

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:58 pm

From the day I bought Stop the Bleeding on cassette back in the early 90s and read the insert that talked about their stand for animal rights and such, I always thought they were a bit off the deep end... however, they're entitled to their opinions and if they want to save the whales, more power to them.
Not MY thing, but that's cool for them.
Fast forward to what you're talking about, and I'm seeing a bit of an extreme stance that's grown way beyond a logical stand for something.

Again, not my thing. I'm on the side of those who push for more humane methods of raising and slaughtering our FOOD... but going all vegan and pushing everyone to believe your way is something I hate.. and don't want any part of.

Are their new album lyrics reflecting these beliefs ?
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topshot rhit



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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:08 pm

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:
Are their new album lyrics reflecting these beliefs ?
The latest release was ALL about it AFAIK

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Xid

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:10 pm

Worship the Creator, not creation.
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Redeemed Fool

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:50 pm

They post stuff on FB that says nothing should die so someone can eat and other such stuff. It's gone way too far if you ask me.
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Guilty/Forgiven

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:59 pm

Agreed. How do they reconcile their Christianity and the Scriptures with such a strong stand against something the Bible says is fair game ('scuse the pun)
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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:11 pm

Genesis 9:3 -
Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
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Driven

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:49 pm

I think it's mostly Ted Kirkpatrick supporting the idea. But I must agree, it is a bit heavy-handed. They speak of industrial raising - that, I agree, is wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:52 am

I have no problems with industrial raising.  At least we know that the animals are fed and they keep the population of meat animals inflated just for food production.  If left to the individuals, we'd hunt animals to extinction.  Let those that can raise them do so and put a nice piece of meat on my plate.

My thoughts?

There is room for ALL of God's creatures--right next to the mashed potatoes with gravy.

As far as Tourniquet goes, I like some of their music but I am not a big fan.  I doubt I will bother with the new one.

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Redeemed Fool

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:26 am

In the winter, remember, if we are cold then animals are cold. Bring them in and warm them, in the skillet.  Twisted Evil
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Guilty/Forgiven

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:53 am

lol!
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Staybrite

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:40 am

I believe that good stewardship of God's creation is a must.  However, I don't think that extends to absolutely not killing animals at all.  I disagree with killing animals for sport, but see no problem with killing them for food.  I was also vegan for over a year and never believed that animals had a "right to live".  I also find the attitude that it isn't ok to kill animals for food, but it is ok to kill plants to be hypocritical.

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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:38 pm

I think animals should be raised as healthily as possible. I don't have any problem with people eating meat. Animals are something God allows us to eat if we choose to. I don't like the idea of torturing animals. Killing and eating animals is totally fine. That's what I think.
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Through The Dark Radio

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:26 am

Hey, at least they haven't made Bats 2 Very Happy
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BearDad

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:28 pm

Through The Dark Radio wrote:
Hey, at least they haven't made Bats 2 Very Happy

I liked that song!
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Redeemed Fool

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:31 pm

I thought it was clever, not my favorite but ok.
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BearDad

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:44 pm

My thoughts, for what it is worth.

I agree that God made meat to go with the potatoes. However, I also agree that we are meant to be stewards of the earth and it's creatures. The things some people do for the sake of food is atrocious, like what is done to ducks and geese to make foie gras. If a bird has to be force-fed through a funnel to make it's liver expand for the sake of a "gourmet" meal, then I hope whoever eats it chokes on it.

While I agree that mass production of food ("chicken mills", etc.) is pretty much a necessity to keep us all fed, those places need to be closely monitored and regulated, and the animals there need to be properly cared for and humanely killed.

I have absolutely no qualms with hunting, even pleasure hunting, to a certain degree. Legal hunting for the sake of population control, as is usually the case with state issued big game tags, is OK, and even someone that doesn't intend to eat the meat should be allowed to hunt because the meat can be donated to people too poor to buy food.  However, I think raising animals and birds for the sake of killing them should be illegal. I enjoy pheasant hunting, but I will never pay to hunt on a pheasant farm, where they typically raise pheasants in large greenhouse-like pens for most of the year before releasing them to be hunted. Sadly, many of the birds from those places make their way beyond the property limits and get hunted as wild game, which is why I believe they should not be legal.

Raising animals for their fur should be stopped, as it is no longer necessary. There are enough ways to make fabric and materials without killing animals for their fur. That doesn't mean I'm against using the skins of animals that were butchered or hunted for their food, or even those that died under normal conditions, but you will never see me in a mink coat (and not just because I don't have the money for one).

Using animals for experimentation on necessary, possibly life-saving items, such as cancer research, is OK when all other testing options have been used, but using animals to test toothpaste, and hairspray and other "personal care" items should be completely verboten.

I'm against keeping and displaying animals for sport. I admit I have been to circuses in the past, but I will never go to one again. I am a bit torn about zoos, as I know that they are often working behind the scenes to help preserve certain species, not just keeping animals for the sake of making money.

I am 100% against using animals for vicious sports, such as dog and cock fights, as well as bullfighting. Raising racing animals (horse, dog, etc.) is fine, as long as it is regulated and the animals are properly cared for (no steroids, etc.), but I am against gambling, so it wouldn't break my heart to see those types of "sports" stopped.

I live in an area where rodeos are popular, but there is only one rodeo event I feel is OK, and that is barrel racing. The horses, bulls, sheep, and calves, used for the other events are terrified, and as far as I'm concerned using them that way qualifies as abuse.

I will never take a pet to be gassed "once its cute age has passed." However, I will not spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on surgery to prolong a diseased animals life if it means sacrificing food and clothing for my family.

People that are cruel to animals, or neglectful of their care, for no other reason than because they can do it are worthy of the same fate as those that are cruel or neglectful to children. String them up by their most tender parts (use your imagination) and leave them to rot.

Concerning Ted's stance, I support him. Is he a bit extreme? Yes. Do I agree with everything he states? No. But how many Believers pay attention to PETA and the ASPCA? Many of us see them as extreme groups doing extreme things that are not really worth our time to do more than notice because we believe in serving the Creator first and that "his eye is on the sparrow" so surely he'll take care of it. However, we must remember that Jesus was a carpenter; He didn't build tables and chairs without tools. In the same manner the Father sometimes uses tools, us, to carry out His will, which includes caring for His creation. The reason I support Ted is because sometimes a Believer needs to speak up and say "HEY! For all their extremes, in some cases PETA and the 'save the world' people are right!"
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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:59 pm

Why do I feel like I just read a blog post?  Laughing

But in all seriousness I think you make some valid points there, and I agree with most (but not all) of them. Well said.

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:46 pm

The problem with aligning with groups like Peta and their ilk is problematic though. They are willing to be terrorists for their belief and they are godless for the most part, they worship the earth. In a world celebrating homosexuality, the choosing of your gender and killing millions of unborn humans, animal rights isn't that high on the list for me. I'd love to ask Ted what he thinks about the OT sacrificial system where millions and millions of animals were killed. We know they were often confined in very small cages awaiting death and were bred just for that. Now, i'm not saying to wantonly torture animals but to say it's the same as doing it to children is conflating the value of human life with animal life and there's nothing Biblical to that. The Biblical view is so different then ours, take dogs, they were scavengers and to be equated with unclean people.  It's easy for us, in our overfed and rich land to say this but it means nothing to those starving to death.
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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:57 pm

Is Ted "aligned with" PETA or some other "earth first" group?  Or just voicing some of the same concerns as them? I admit I have only given his latest work a cursory listen and only skimmed the liner notes. If he is saying he supports them then I agree with you 100% and want my $$ for the CD back because buying it essentially supports them; as Believers we should avoid supporting organizations whose beliefs are not the same as our own.

On the other hand, some of the concerns of PETA and other such organizations are valid and need to be expressed. I don't believe proper care for the creation needs to amount to worship; I can still worship God while I help take care of His creation.

Redeemed Fool wrote:
I'd love to ask Ted what he thinks about the OT sacrificial system where millions and millions of animals were killed. We know they were often confined in very small cages awaiting death and were bred just for that. 

We must beware of comparing OT times to the present. Those were barbaric times with barbaric people. I myself have a difficult time understanding and reconciling much of what I read in the OT with what we consider to be "civilized" today.
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Redeemed Fool

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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:13 pm

Hmm, homosexual marriage is now legal and we kill millions of unborn and are encouraging so called sex changes. Define barbaric. Just because we have a lot of technology the people then weren't lesser and we aren't better.
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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:14 pm

And I don't know how aligned with Peta he is but lets everyone know he's very sympathetic to their cause.
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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:46 pm

Hey Bear, i'm not fighting with you, I appreciate the interaction so please don't take this as an attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:08 pm

As well, the sacrificial system was put in place by God Himself. One of the goals ends up being demonstrating the horror, the price, and the waste of sin.
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PostSubject: Re: Tourniquet is losing me.    Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:51 pm

Redeemed Fool wrote:
Hey Bear, i'm not fighting with you, I appreciate the interaction so please don't take this as an attack.

no worries. however, this is turning into a cmr theology realm discussion, so I'll say no more. I merely wanted to share with my "blog post" where I stand in relation to Ted's songs and to indicate that I support his concern for God's creation even if I don't support all of his ideas.
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