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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Pillar update/new song   Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:27 pm

If you haven't heard Pillar's new single "For the Love of the Game," you can head on over to www.pillarmusic.com and www.myspace.com/pillar to check it out. Pillar's new album For the Love of the Game is set to release February 2008.

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Shawn Of Fire

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:39 pm

Cool tune...glad they dropped the rap element...
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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:29 pm

Agreed, probably my favortie modern rock band since they dropped the rap. The last two albums were great.

While the new song couldn't be labled "groundbreaking" it is still pretty good.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:23 pm

If only they kept the lyrical content of the debut.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:10 pm

Quote :
If only they kept the lyrical content of the debut.


Agreed! Then, they'd be more than good--they'd be awesome!

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ChosenOne

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:11 pm

I like the new tune. I do am glad they quit the rap style but also wish they would let thier faith shine a little bit more. I must say thier last album "The Reeckoning" was just okay for me. Will be getting this thou
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Shawn Of Fire

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:33 am

Maybe they're being called to a larger audience ala Switchfoot or Skillet...that calls for a bit of subtlety...don't ya think?
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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:52 am

I can see both sides of that coin, Shawn. But, for a band that came out of the blue sharing the gospel, that would be like Billy Graham saying that "I'm being called to do bigger crusades, so we're going to back off and just give positive messages".

Don't get me wrong--no band has to have a certain amount of JPMs in their songs (Jesus per minute). But, some of the Christian artists who are crossing over are getting so vague that some of their songs seem to have NO meaning to them at all. Sure, they've got good music, but even the church kids who should understand aren't getting it. If church folk aren't understanding the message, it is doubtful that a lost person is going to hear it either.

But, we're all entitled to our opinions on this.

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Shawn Of Fire

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:10 am

alldatndensum wrote:
I can see both sides of that coin, Shawn. But, for a band that came out of the blue sharing the gospel, that would be like Billy Graham saying that "I'm being called to do bigger crusades, so we're going to back off and just give positive messages."

But being a Preacher and being a Rock Band are two different things going for two different audiences. Call it a "ministry" all you want, it's still a Rock Band. Rock Bands have to morph to survive.

"Sharing the Gospel" is more than finding new ways to rewrite John 3:16. As you know, musicians are artists & artists have to do new things.

Also, don't assume that God did not CALL them to be more covert so He can take them more places outside of the Christian Bookstore.

alldatndensum wrote:
Don't get me wrong--no band has to have a certain amount of JPMs in their songs (Jesus per minute). But, some of the Christian artists who are crossing over are getting so vague that some of their songs seem to have NO meaning to them at all. Sure, they've got good music, but even the church kids who should understand aren't getting it. If church folk aren't understanding the message, it is doubtful that a lost person is going to hear it either.

Maybe they aren't writing music for "church folk". Maybe not every song has an underlying Spiritual theme? Maybe they want to reach more than "church folk"?

Pillar's (and Skillet's, and Lifehouse's, etc) audience consists of more than the fans in the seats...their audience, being Christians, includes the other bands they play with, the crew, the business people. As long as they conduct themselves as Christians in their everyday lives, they're doing God's Will.

alldatndensum wrote:
But, we're all entitled to our opinions on this.

True.
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rockerVu2

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:21 am

To be honest I never was a big Pillar fan.
Maybe it was the rap influence.

Now I have listened to "The Love Of The Game" I have to tell that this songs really rocks.
Sounds interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:39 am

Shawn Of Fire wrote:
Pillar's (and Skillet's, and Lifehouse's, etc) audience consists of more than the fans in the seats...their audience, being Christians, includes the other bands they play with, the crew, the business people. As long as they conduct themselves as Christians in their everyday lives, they're doing God's Will.
I don't have an issue with a Christian band that has vague lyrics as long as they're being disciples with those they interact with everyday as you say. We should all be doing that anyway.

It's just disappointing to see the message get watered down so much over time a la POD. If they started that way, it wouldn't bother me so much. Maybe they preach from the stage still. Maybe they share Jesus with fans after shows.

It's pretty uncommon for someone to get bolder lyrically with time. I think Rob Rock has and he sure has a large following worldwide. I think Christian Rivel has been as well on his recent projects.

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Shawn Of Fire

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:53 am

Quote :
It's pretty uncommon for someone to get bolder lyrically with time. I think Rob Rock has and he sure has a large following worldwide. I think Christian Rivel has been as well on his recent projects.

It is uncommon...but, as stated, not all ministry is done from the stage with bands like this...

And here's the bottom line...bands who start out "bold" & in the CCM market tend to remain there unless some lyrical diversity can come into play...not all bands want to be (nor are called to be) Petra or Building 429 (playing only to Christians)....that whole "preaching to the choir" thing...

Before we act all disappointed & put out with a broader lyrical focus, consider what God may be doing with the band.
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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:05 pm

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But being a Preacher and being a Rock Band are two different things going for two different audiences. Call it a "ministry" all you want, it's still a Rock Band. Rock Bands have to morph to survive.

"Sharing the Gospel" is more than finding new ways to rewrite John 3:16. As you know, musicians are artists & artists have to do new things.


True that not everyone is going to preach to a congregation in a church, but we are all called to carry the Gospel. Some will argue that a more covert approach works best while others claim that a 1-2 punch is the best. But, even though everyone is not a traditional "preacher/pastor", I believe that the Great Commission was for everyone--not just the Apostles. If we're church workers, then we'll carry the Gospel through preaching/teaching/good works. If we work a public job we carry the Gospel through good work/relational conversation (teaching will come through in this at times). Rock bands are not exempt--they should carry the Gospel in good works (on and off stage)/lyrics (type of teaching/preaching), relational conversation & interviews, etc. I understand that artists have to find new ways of describing the same ol' thing. But, when the allegory is lost on the audience, was it worth it? If I am talking to a dude at work about the Lord, and cannot break it down to his level, did I do him any good? That's my biggest beef with watering down the message--it gets to the point that it becomes meaningless.

I just don't buy the whole concept that "we've got to back the message way down in order to succeed" theory. In the early Christian metal days, the bands took the message to the clubs--not the churches--and payed their dues just like everyone else. Stryper got big. Deliverance and Vengence Rising got videos on MTV on Headbangers Ball. They were beyond the Christian bookstores because they took their message to the street. Both church folk and lost people heard. Some got it. Others were turned off by it. But it was the good news that Jesus saves going forward.

Quote :
I don't have an issue with a Christian band that has vague lyrics as long as they're being disciples with those they interact with everyday as you say. We should all be doing that anyway.

It's just disappointing to see the message get watered down so much over time a la POD. If they started that way, it wouldn't bother me so much.

I guess that's what bothers me. If the band started off that way, it wouldn't bother me. But, it makes it look like a lot of artists just use the youth group as a street team towards commercial success. I'm not saying that everyone that tones down their approach is just out for the $$$--but sometimes it looks that way.

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Shawn Of Fire

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:13 pm

I see what you're saying...I really do. I'm only saying, in return, to consider what God may be doing that you may not understand right away. Try not to be instantly disappointed or put off when something changes or moves away from the original...it may be for a bigger reason.

Maybe they're trying to get more money, maybe God is directing them to something else...ultimately, we don't know.
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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:28 pm

I'm certainly not going to argue about God changing someone's direction. If watering down allows them to get a wider audience yet they still do the old songs and still walk the Walk, more power to them. I think that is where Disciple is at. They've broken out into the secular market, which is great. The downside is they are now too expensive to play here anymore.

Anyway, I think a band like Ultimatum is an anomoly. They play clubs/bars, not churches and youth groups and they bring the message hard and fast. I know there are a few other bands like that but there should be far more. I'm always puzzled why so few Christian bands get out into the world so they aren't preaching to the choir. I know some are called to do just that, but it seems like 99% do that. That's my own personal beef that really has nothing to do with the topic. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:45 pm

Along with Spoken and POD, Pillar are probably one of my favorite harder Christian rock bands. Sure their lyrics have changed some but I personally like them better now. You can't say Jesus loves you but so many different ways before it becomes kind of boring and repetitive. I've read plenty of interviews and stories of Pillar recently and I can say that they are still very much a Christian band. They really encouraged The Showdown through some trying times on the Ozzfest tour recently.
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Shawn Of Fire

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:53 pm

Quote :
I've read plenty of interviews and stories of Pillar recently and I can say that they are still very much a Christian band. They really encouraged The Showdown through some trying times on the Ozzfest tour recently.

There ya go.
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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:34 pm

I think we tend to forget that bands are merely artists made up of human beings.
As a new Christian, I was 100% narrow when it came to music, requiring only "Christian" music in my collection. As I've grown, I've seen a lot of bands who weren't "Christian" but had a saved member or two that really ministered to others. I personally think that's the case with many bands today that we classify as Christian. Surely not all band members in CCM are saved. And surely not all band members in the secular world are lost.

There's praise and worship, which is 100% Christian. Then there are "Artists" who create music, some of their music reflects their faith, some doesn't.

One song that really spoke to me was from the "watered down" band Switchfoot: "We were meant to live for so much more". I've known others who have been affected by that song on secular radio as well. Had SF gone deeply into the Gospel message as to what we were meant for, radio wouldn't have played it, and people wouldn't have bought their album... possibly buying older albums by Switchfoot which have more of the Gospel message in the lyrics and the liners.

I, as any other Believer, highly enjoy hearing God glorified and preached in song.... but the Bible says that we should do this tactfully in many settings. Wise as serpents... becoming a Jew to the Jews.... etc
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Shawn Of Fire

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:38 pm

apologetixfreak - Great post! I totally agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:24 pm

apologetixfreak wrote:
I think we tend to forget that bands are merely artists made up of human beings.
As a new Christian, I was 100% narrow when it came to music, requiring only "Christian" music in my collection. As I've grown, I've seen a lot of bands who weren't "Christian" but had a saved member or two that really ministered to others. I personally think that's the case with many bands today that we classify as Christian. Surely not all band members in CCM are saved. And surely not all band members in the secular world are lost.


Very well put, I find it hard to disagree.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:27 pm

I see both views. I like alldat agree that bands shouldn't water down the message. However, I don't think shoving christianity down someones throat or in thier face. I believe we are to love them to Jesus and that's how we become Christlike. I also agree that the bands that do "crossover" do still live out thier daily lives as good christians. I know Skillet is making an impact on the mainstream world and that they talk to people after the concerts about thier faith and the hope of Christ. I do wish that bands that are christians not be vague in thier lyrics. If you don't want to mention Jesus or God that is allright but at least convey it in a way that points to God.
Look at Disciple. Here is a bands whose latest album in my opinon would be huge in the mainstream market. "Game On" was even featured on a WWE PPV. But no mainstream label would really market this album as much do to the fact that they are very bold in thier music. Just look at the song "after the world", a huge hit and there is no question what that song is about. As far as Pillar I also have to comend them for leaving Christian on thier myspace page when describing thier music. A lot of other bands don't put the fact that they are Christian on thier myspace page and yet Pillar and Demon Hunter do. Not that it is a big deal.
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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:10 am

Good post, ChosenOne.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:26 am

Amen Chosenone,

As I said earlier, some we need to be tactful with... slip in as one of the crowd like Paul did, becoming like them (obviously without sinning with them) and tactfully feed them the Gospel msg.

Others, I'm amazed at how God can use in a mighty way in the secular world like Casting Crowns. The first time I heard on mainstream, secular radio (at work no less !) "I can only imagine", I was not only blown away, I was rejoicing that such a song skipped over to an audience starving for this message ! I wish more hardcore msgs like that could cross over (there is quite a bit on country radio, but not on top 40). PODs appearances on MTV are pretty strong as well. So their human side has shown at times, nevertheless, God's word does not come back void. It's awesome to hear that "Alive" and others have played on MTV. Same with Jars' "Flood" song which I think has a strong msg as well.

God uses these artists as HE pleases.
It's only when they fade away from Christian values and begin cursing or promoting heretical veiws that we should really be upset. All of us as Believers, artists or average Joes, should conduct ourselves as Scripture tells us to... however, the artist has a bigger responsibility on their shoulders as they are in the spotlight with millions of eyes on them. It's like James tells us, the Teacher will be held to a higher accountability because of his position. So will it be, I believe, for one who confesses Christianity and willingly goes before millions to speak, sing, act, or whatever he/she is called to do.


Last edited by on Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Shawn Of Fire

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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:33 am

Quote :
Others, I'm amazed at how God can use in a mighty way in the secular world like Casting Crowns. The first time I heard on mainstream, secular radio (at work no less !) "I can only imagine", I was not only blown away, I was rejoicing that such a song skipped over to an audience starving for this message !

That's Mercy Me...

Also, if you look at the song, the only "message" is that the singer is wondering what it will be like when he meets Jesus. That's probably why it was so relatable to so many...wondering. It wasn't telling anyone about Jesus or "preaching". It was the relating the experience of a single man wondering about the future.
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PostSubject: Re: Pillar update/new song   Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:42 am

Quote :
That's Mercy Me...

Oops, you're right, I always get those 2 mixed up. Embarassed

Quote :
Also, if you look at the song, the only "message" is that the singer is wondering what it will be like when he meets Jesus. That's probably why it was so relatable to so many...wondering. It wasn't telling anyone about Jesus or "preaching". It was the relating the experience of a single man wondering about the future.

Again, that is very tactful
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